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[Book Spoilers] Nitpick without repercussion!

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#1 teemo


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Posted 03 June 2012 - 11:04 PM

Well? I was really unimpressed with this episode and not really in a good mood, so you guys go at it..

basic rules:
1) don't bitch about people bitching
2) don't nitpick the appearances of actresses in a cruel way. (being upset that Syrio wasn't bald is OK, saying that the Captain's Daughter has ugly breasts is not). This is a mod rule and the thread will be shut down if it's violated. Also, you can't threaten to physically harm the writers of the show, regardless of how much you hate the episode.

Edited by hk47, 04 June 2012 - 01:52 PM.

#2 Pellaeon


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Posted 04 June 2012 - 09:49 AM

What I found horrible:

HOTU- not even a damed blue rose, nothing, is this so hart to make only one vision right

Jon-he deserted as long as I get it he just get furious and kill the Halfhand

Robb-he married her because he was so horny, come on where is his Stark honor, why should his men follow him now? And why did they do it with a septon?

Theon-where is Ramsey???

Ramsey-they could show us at least a man with in a armor and that Boltons man sack Winterfell, do anybody believe that the Ironborn make it?

LF-WTF do he realy want to help her, or is she just an asset for him?

Varys-is he a EUNUCH now for sure, does GRRM know about this scence, would be funny if he isn't in the book

Ros-first LF and now Varys, come on

Tyrion-It seems they buid up a alliance between Varys and him, but he and Shae I thought: You are a fool dwarf, you pay her

Bran- a barrow, where is the basket

Dany-did nobody notice her handmaid sleeping with XXD? And since when are her Khalasaar intrested in gold to BUY a ship?

EDIT: Sam spared by the white walker-WHY??

I had high expectations for this episode and know I'm really pissed

Edited by Pellaeon, 04 June 2012 - 09:52 AM.

#3 Elba the Intoner

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Posted 04 June 2012 - 09:50 AM

Now that the season is over and we know how things have played out, here are my nitpicks:

Honestly, a lot of this episode was just underwhelming to me. Brienne and Jaime were okay, but, I don't know, it felt a little flat to me. When is Jaime going to call her wench?!

House of the undying was meh. If Pyat Pree is so powerful now, how can he be burned to death so easily?

Stannis and Mel - meh. Davos was no where to be seen so we are all supposed to think he died in the battle. That's true enough I suppose.

Robb - I actually don't like him now. Just shut up Robb you pompous ass!

Jon - So, I guess he's just a cold blooded killer now too (like Jaime) who killed Qhorin because he was angry? I was waiting to see how the changes to his story would play out and now I can see why so many don't like it. Is he going to have any moral dilemmas about being with the Wildlings? Does he even care about the Night's Watch anymore?

As for LF getting a lot of the Hound's key lines as he did here with "take a look around you, we're all liars here and every one better than you," I hate it! Except for episode 9, Blackwater, the Hound's character has been shafted, as has Sansa's. (I know this has been discussed ad nauseum already though so I won't belabor the point any more). Also, Lf is going to be all up front and out in the open about helping Sansa get out of King's Landing? That's out of character for him. What happened to Dontos?

There were a lot of things I loved otoh. Bran and Rickon seeing Luwin before he dies made me cry, Theon and the general storyline at Winterfell, Jaqen changing face (though I'll miss Tom Waslicha's (sp?) face), and the ending with Sam was creepy and foreboding.

#4 Storms End

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Posted 04 June 2012 - 09:58 AM

I must admit, terrible episode, I honestly thought the plot of nearly all the characters totally unhinged.

Edited by Storms End, 04 June 2012 - 09:58 AM.

#5 Longspear Ryk

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Posted 04 June 2012 - 10:09 AM

Idont understand why they wasted money casting dontos if they werent goin to use him....

We coulda just got our reeek....

#6 unRobert



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Posted 04 June 2012 - 10:13 AM

Fail. Thought it was the worst episode of the series. I was wincing at the cheese. Non-book readers laughed a lot (At all the wrong parts.) Ugh, that Drogo returning prophecy, when recited as a love-line is just terrible. Sooo corny. All I kept thinking was: Are the books really this cheesy? No, come on- they can't be.

Lot of people liking it, from browsing through the comments, posts, etc. I guess HBO knows their audience, and this episode did well for a lot of their demographic.

Dany/HOTU - Wow, dumb jesus-scene, easily defeating the dude who prior to this had multiple body doubles you could not kill. He chose to just be one of them? And stand in front of the dragons?

Jamie/Brienne - Big disappointment, thought these scenes could have been hilarious. Very flat.

Three blasts - Less is more, people. Especially when adapting a series that is supposed to be "low-fantasy". Walking Zombies? Come on- been done and done and done.

Theon was good. I guess thinking about the reek storyline, it was too complicated to translate to the screen, but I can't help but be underwhelmed by the sack of Winterfell.

#7 teemo


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Posted 04 June 2012 - 10:14 AM

Yeah, this may have been the worst episode of the season. I have only liked maybe 3 episodes this season (and loved one), so whether or not I buy the Blu-ray was really determined on this episode. The House of the Undying was boring. I guess they figured fans would love to see a sappy little "moon of my life" shit between Dany and Drogo and dedicated the whole thing to that, which doesn't make any sense. He should have at least been a trick or something. Idiotic. Then Dany ransacks his home like a common thief...are you kidding me? I don't even like Dany but that looked ridiculous. And that was unusually cruel for her character - locking Doreah in that vault. She's a whore, she fucks people!!! What did you expect!!

Robb is acting an asshole who doesn't give a shit about Stark honor or anything. God, what a jerk. At least in the book I felt pity for him. In the show it's like, "bye bye, sucker, you deserved it."

I am super confused about the Halfhand scene. Not everyone I talked to thought it was on orders...some thought it was cold-blooded murder, others thought it was on orders. There really should be NO debate. They should have made that 110% clear, otherwise it ruins Jon's character. The person I'm watching it with thinks he's a murderer.

What was up with Theon's scene? Talk about anticlimactic. I mean.....WHAT?!?!?! That was how they got out of showing Ramsay Bolton, apparently.

What is the point of the Ros/Varys scene? Yeah Ros, we've seen your tit. Great. Awesome. This is where we get our tit scenes now? From someone showing them to an obvious eunuch and pretending not to know? lmao okay, whatever. And how the fuck can Ros be a business partner with Varys? I'm sorry but NO PLEASE STOP!!!!!!!!!

When the Others showed up, my friend asked if the show was going to be like The Walking Dead now....and they were serious :bang:

Edited by hk47, 04 June 2012 - 10:16 AM.

#8 Bride of Winter

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Posted 04 June 2012 - 10:15 AM

I know how you feel. I'll try and get everything down, I have to apologize beforehand for the mess that this is going to turn into. 

the (undying-less) House of the Undying was laughable. My friends and I joked about how the HOTU would seem like a puppet show after all the money and focus spent on the battle of blackwater, but after seeing that mess, a puppet show would have had more suspense. 

The King and Queen in the North getting married BY A SEPTON was a nice touch. I mean, what are the Old Gods anyway? they must be chilling with the Wargs in the land of dropped plotlines. 

I probably would have been more upset about the way Robb continues to treat Cat if I hadn't already given up all hope in HBO's adaptation of my two favorite characters. (In other news - as far as Robb and Cat know, Bran and Rickon are alive. Which means Robb officially married Talisa not to preserve her honor, not to avoid fathering a bastard because of the way Jon had to grow up, but for ~luv~. and to spite Mommy dearest).

Also on a side note, Catelyn telling Robb her and Ned fell in love eventually and Robb going "fuck that" might have been the most OOC scene all season. Not to mention with that, the writers might as well have intentionally spat on Robb and Jeyne's story in the books, where the point is that they married with no love between them and in really bad conditions, but sort of grew to care for each other. Actually there seem to be a of parallels between Jeyne Westerling and Catelyn that hbo just decided to completely disregard. Between that bit, and having Robb and Talisa travel to the Crag (which hbo stated is still the seat of house Westerling) it seems like they're intentionally making a joke out of Robb's asoiaf storyline and are trying way too hard to make it clear to the book readers that Talisa is something new and improved and has nothing to do with Jeyne.

Also is anyone else worried about the Wildlings trusting Jon so quickly? There's that, and the lack of Ghost and warging (a major problem), but generally IMO they haven't messed him up nearly as bad as Robb. 

I'll give credit where due - everything about the Winterfell scenes were perfect, and I'm even okay with how they changed the sack of Winterfell (if they HAD to omit Reek/Ramsay, they altered the story to work around that the best they could). And I'm even warming up to Osha now that I know she's not replacing the Reeds. The ending was insane, and I must say, for people who accidentally kill off important characters and can't tell the difference between the Old Gods and the Seven, I'm pleasantly surprised the producers made a point of differentiating the Others and the Wights. 

ultimately, all of my complaints boil down to this: the producers need to stop trying to outdo GRRM with their sparkly new and improved plots and characters. if they want a pat on the back, they're not getting one. 

Edited by Bride of Winter, 04 June 2012 - 10:38 AM.

#9 Jamie Lannister

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Posted 04 June 2012 - 10:17 AM

Two words: Ramsay Snow.

Or another two words: Red Helm.


#10 Dracarya


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Posted 04 June 2012 - 10:17 AM

I can't even.. I'd be here all day. The whole episode sucked. I will not be buying the DVDs for season 2.

One extra thing, no names for the dragons? So what's the t-shirt about in the HBO store? Seriously, fuck off. This is probably the most minor thing on my list, maybe I'll contribute more later once I'm done flipping tables <_<

#11 SerMixalot


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Posted 04 June 2012 - 10:18 AM

Arya didnt kill anyone

FM will help Arya get revenge on her list instead of being objective killers for their god

Jon is the guy who will shortly be standing up to Stannis and Melisandre? and defending the wall against the Thenns and then against Mance Rayder? Meh

Luwin is an Oathbreaker-guess he deserved to die.

Shae will betray our Hero Tyrion because Tyrion marries Sansa. Oh poor put upon Imp

WTF is Ros's purpose


"we have captured you and placed you in an unescapable position! Dracyrs! Ooops"



Briene is now the Terminator-Hasta La Vista Men-at-Arms

horse shits outside of throne room

Margaery is a whore who apparently owns one dress.

Edited by SerMixalot, 04 June 2012 - 10:23 AM.

#12 SerMixalot


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Posted 04 June 2012 - 10:21 AM

WRT to the HotU "prophecies" either they are a. in line with what GRRM will write or b. NOT in line with what GRRM will write

if a. Then D&D released info that GRRM has not, ie Dany will destroy KL buring the red keep to the ground and Drogo returns

if b. Then the show will dramatically diverge from the story.

If a. I would imagine GRRM would not be happy about having this info released.

#13 kungtotte


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Posted 04 June 2012 - 10:22 AM

The horse taking a shit is actually the only thing that was 100% faithfully adapted from the books in this episode.

#14 David Selig

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Posted 04 June 2012 - 10:24 AM

Where the hell were Xaro's guards? The guy is the King of Qarth, yet Dany's handful of men just waltzed their way right into his bedroom with nodody trying to stop them.

And for the love of God, why hasn't anyone told Robb the whole season that the deal with the Freys wasn't just to pass a bridge, it gave him 4000 soldiers, each of whom he desperately needs for the vicious war he's currently fighting. It makes zero sense that Cat didn't tell him this.

What were the dragons waiting for until Dany came if they could release themselves so easily? Did they love being chained by people they didn't know or something?

#15 Roose Seal

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Posted 04 June 2012 - 10:25 AM

Man what a terrible finale. Even if I put my "wha wha it didn't happen like that in the books" complaints aside, it was a real mess.

Dany - The HotU was probably the scene I anticipated the most this season, even moreso than the Blackwater ... Even with really low expectations, it managed to be extremely anticlimactic and dull. Pyat Pree looked so silly when he was burning. No tension, no suspense, no real threat for Dany. Obviously they couldn't include all the visions, but a few would've been nice. As it was, it was dull, wholly inconsequential and had none of the mystery and foreboding it should've had. "Dracarys!" *puff of smoke* .. seriously ?
Then Doreah in bed with XXD... who the hell cares ? And the vault is empty ? Big whoop. "Thanks for the lesson XXD". Such terrible writing.
Her storyline has been one giant borefest this season.

Robb - Ugh. His storyline has been horrible this season too. The sappy hollywood romance really didn't work.

Alfie Allen was awesome and his storyline has been one of the few redeeming points of this season. He was great in this episode, but the climax of his storyline was ... dull. The Sack of Winterfell was extremely underwhelming.

Liked that they kept Jaqen changing faces. Arya's storyline was great up until Tywin left, after what it fell flat on its face. Great buildup, no payoff at all.

But of all the terrible things in this episode, the zombie march at the end was by far the worst. I actually laughed out loud at how silly it looked. I think they were trying for "ominous" and "terrifying" and it just looked stupid. The White Walker was probably the silliest design I've seen in a long time (and terrible CG) ... and why the hell would they spare Sam ? Why couldn't they just end on "three blasts" and fade to black. That zombie army was so stupid. Man.

It's becoming a little too painfully obvious that the writers on this show have absolutely no idea what they're doing. When they're sticking to the book (which they did for most of season 1) the show ranges from great to amazing, when they try to adapt too much or come up with original storylines, it ranges from meh to abysmal. This finale was not just a poor adaptation, it was just poor TV all around.
Seeing how badly they fucked up this season, I'm not really sure I'll tune in for next one. I mean at this point it's become just another cheesy fantasy show.

#16 Evamitchelle


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Posted 04 June 2012 - 10:31 AM

I want to throw bricks at the screen every time Robb makes an appearance. Being married by a septon, blaming the marriage on Cat's betrayal, Cat not even trying that hard to stop him etc. At this point the Red Wedding will be a mercy for these characters.

I also hope they'll explain that it wasn't the Ironborn who sacked Winterfell (it wouldn't make sense in the show either, so it's not just a book quibble) and I thought Stannis choking Melisandre was just random.

#17 The Meeraculous Third Reed

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Posted 04 June 2012 - 10:31 AM

Every change from the book in this episode was utterly pointless, and the annoying thing is, I can't think of genuinely good reasons for any of them. At all.

#18 Pellaeon


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Posted 04 June 2012 - 10:33 AM

I getting so angry by reading this all not with this thread but with the the writers and producer of the show. GRRM showed the how they should do it with Blackwater but no, lets fuck up the series. Where is a valyrianstone vault when we need it?

#19 SerMixalot


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Posted 04 June 2012 - 10:36 AM

Season 1 was so perfect, not only as an adaption but as a story with deep characters, complex motivations and great acting.

Season 2 has drastically changed the characters, getting rid of the complexity of the characters and depth of the environment and story. And I dont buy that this is for budget reasons. So much of it is dialogue and simple restructuring of scenes. Take Jon for example, the changes were from a production stand point nominal. From a story line phenomemol. They changed Jon into an incompetent and weak boy (in search of some sort of father figure-and mind you he has no opporunity to get this so called guidance before going on to the leadership role he will be thrust into). Show jon is NOT the type of character to stand up to Stannis and Mellisandre. He is not the character to defend against the Thenns or defend the wall against the Wildings.

Shoot at this point I would vote for SLynt for LC.

D&D appear to completely misunderstand their characters, which boggles my mind.

Even show Jon would have a hard time defending his actions with he Wildings. Are we supposed to know or accept that QH words justify doing all it takes to get the Wildings to believe Jon had turned his cloak? QH said that Jon failed by letting Y get away, he is captured and the other rangers killed. QH says that Jon must make sure that he lives up to their sacrifices (or a similar theme), he says offhandedly about getting inside the Wilding camp (NOT BECOME A WILDING), then touts the honor of the NW. IOW QH NEVER said Jon was to pretend to turn his cloak.

If I were in the NW I would consider Jon a turncloak.

#20 SerMixalot


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Posted 04 June 2012 - 10:36 AM

The horse taking a shit is actually the only thing that was 100% faithfully adapted from the books in this episode.

Nope the horse shat in front of the throne, not outside the throne room.