350 replies to this topic

[Umel of Ys]

David Selig, on 04 June 2012 - 10:15 AM, said:

but I don't see the North accepting Ned's heir following the Southern religion.

Precisely

[Howdyphillip]

Umel of Ys, on 04 June 2012 - 10:20 AM, said:

Well, what gods do the Frey keep? If they are (or pretend to be) pious worshippers of the Old Gods, they may throw this travesty in Robb's face as yet another treason on his part leading to the RW.

The Freys are Bannermen of the Tullys of the Riverlands... They worship the Faith (The seven.)

[Morvran]

It was the only thing that majorly bugged me about the finale.  In fact, it made me angry enough to pause the tv and ask 'wtf??'.  Ridiculous misstep by the writers.

That said, non-readers I've talked to and read (recaps) liked the marriage scene.

[Loose seal]

Concerning Karstark, I wrote it off as one of those things people say like I would say "Jesus christ that is a shitty show" or "God, that finale was terrible" even though I believe neither in Jesus nor any kind of God.

Concerning Robb's wedding, that was a terrible mistake. Religion is such an important aspect of Asoiaf, I can't believe they could overlook something like that.

[Septon Meribald]

Holafernando Torres, on 04 June 2012 - 10:25 AM, said:

The Freys are Bannermen of the Tullys of the Riverlands... They worship the Faith (The seven.)

Well the Blackwoods are Tully bannermen and keep to the Old Gods and the Maderlys are Stark bannermen and keep to the Seven. That being said, yes the Freys do indeed worship the Seven.

[Envie]

I was also really annoyed with that scene. While it was beautifully done and poignant with the vows said at the same time, it just felt wrong to me because Robb Stark is very much a Stark more than his Mother's people or anyone from the south who follow The Seven.

The only thing I can think of why they chose to do it that way was to show even more evidence of Robb's willingness to turn away from what he promised The Freys and in essence his promise to the people of the North by turning to an obvious huge mistake in marrying this woman. Adding insult to injury by marrying her by southern tradition may serve to show viewers just how far Robb is willing to stray from his purpose and leaves everyone wondering what price he will pay for this blunder.

We all know that's a very heavy price but non book readers may not feel like its such a big deal that he's choosing to break his word for love. By turning his back completely on the north and marrying this girl in secret, by a septon, it could convey a much more disheartening message.

I'm just grasping at straws here. I was really disappointed by this choice of ceremony and can't imagine it was just a stupid choice by the writers.

[K.C.]

I originally tried to create this shortly after the scene in question, but the forum was overloaded. It was already being discussed in the main episode thread by the time this was posted/approved. Probably best to have a dedicated thread anyway though.

I'm glad I started visiting the forums. I'm a novice and usually watch with other people present, so I didn't even notice the Karstark issue.

[White Raven]

Maybe it's a symbol of Robb abandoning his duties as Lord of Winterfell. I don't think it was just bad writing.

[Morvran]

Slightly off topic, but didn't Stannis mention something about "the seventh hell" or similar earlier in the show?  Something more out of Dante than Westerosi lore?  That alone bugged me and set my radar off, and then they threw the Seven into the wedding.

[Septon Meribald]

Morvran, on 04 June 2012 - 10:40 AM, said:

Slightly off topic, but didn't Stannis mention something about "the seventh hell" or similar earlier in the show?  Something more out of Dante than Westerosi lore?  That alone bugged me and set my radar off, and then they threw the Seven into the wedding.

No 'seven hells' is a common exclamation in Westeros. It appears everything is done in sevens for the Andals.

[Jordan The Tall]

I dunno, it didn't set me off at all, at least not moreso than the larger changes to that story and the very prog-rock southron vows. The way I saw it is, they were in a southron region and had a southron priest, so they had a southron wedding. People who elope don't really pay a lot of attention to the circumstances and the scenery. I had a Christian wedding because I married a Christian gal and eloped to a Christian church - my mind wasn't on what songs they were playing or who said what and how.

[TheDarkOne]

You can't say it's just a mistake because at this level that's implausible. It's not that they are trying not to confuse people, as we have seen them mentioned before.
Honestly, I just don't think they care. The thought in this decision and many others is basically...This is our version of the story, deal with it. Thus you get this, you get the house of the undying with no undying, no chain in black water bay, White Walkers not caring that Sam is staring at them etc.

I don't know what irritates more. The decision to be so disrespectful to the source material, or people here scrambling to make excuses for HBO. It's equally repulsive.

Edited by TheDarkOne, 04 June 2012 - 11:01 AM.

[dreamcatcher]

So is Talisa now Jeyne or not, and what is the big twist? I don't even...

[victim]

I hated it, and I don't hate much. I can only assume it will arise as a plot point later in the show. After all, Robb and Cat don't have too much to do next season if they follow the books. This is, of course, wishful thinking on my part. End of the day, it's still only a minor nitpick.

[Ser Elfor the Landstander]

Horrible mistake.

But without the other version, TV viewers wouldn't know enough to complain. I do wonder when (or if) we'll get a wedding using the Old Gods' customs. The only one I remember is that Ramsay/fakeArya wedding.

[Versiroth]

TheDarkOne, on 04 June 2012 - 10:55 AM, said:

You can't say it's just a mistake because at this level that's implausible. It's not that they are trying not to confuse people, as we have seen them mentioned before.
Honestly, I just don't think they care. The thought in this decision and many others is basically...This is our version of the story, deal with it. Thus you get this, you get the house of the undying with no undying, no chain in black water bay, White Walkers not caring that Sam is staring at them etc.

I don't know what irritates more. The decision to be so disrespectful to the source material, or people here scrambling to make excuses for HBO. It's equally repulsive.

It's no more annoying than people saying the show is garbage because of small details that no one but the most obsessed book readers would notice.   Nitpicks are fine and dandy.   But when nitpicks turn into "OMG, they ruined so and so's character completely!!" then some people have taken the nitpick to an extreme level.  

When they completely change something major, plot wise, that compromises the over all story (which would never happen as Martin is heavily involved), I'll agree with you guys.   But, the same things unfolding on screen in a slightly different way doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things.   Robb will still be murdered, Jon will still become lord Commander of the nights watch, Tyrion will still murder his father, etc, etc.

Edited by Versiroth, 04 June 2012 - 11:34 AM.

[Morvran]

Septon Meribald, on 04 June 2012 - 10:42 AM, said:

No 'seven hells' is a common exclamation in Westeros. It appears everything is done in sevens for the Andals.

Thanks!  I never really noticed it in the books.  Now I supposed I'll notice it everywhere hehe.

[Kernest]

Versiroth, on 04 June 2012 - 10:08 AM, said:

They have mentioned the Seven, the Old Gods, R'hlor, The Drowned god and the Many Faced god is sure to come.

This might be slightly off topic, but since it's mostly about religion: Didn't Jaqen talk about the "red god" demanding the names from Arya, meaning R'hlor rather than the Many Faced god? This would mean the Faceless Men are "pawns" of R'hlor which I find much more unacceptable than Robb being married in the wrong manner.

[Castel]

udpaco13, on 04 June 2012 - 09:52 AM, said:

Karstark also said he would give his heart to the Father in one of the episodes.  Pretty weak IMO.

Karstark could be a follower of the Faith in the series? There isn't just a hard line that means that above Cailin= Old Gods and below Cailin= Faith. Hell, in the books Sansa seems to favor the Seven more than the Old Gods.

Honestly I think they just wanted a traditional looking marriage. It's visually more evocative I guess.  

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And yet he didn't care that his daughter followed the seven?

Yeah, the Old Gods don't seem to be very exclusionary deities. I doubt that it's a mark of shame that one worships the Old Gods instead of the Seven.

[atia-]

Do the writers even give a shit?  Honestly??  Is it THAT hard to get the religions straight???  Don't they have a asoiaf-fact genius or whatever with them on set??  What is going on??

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When they completely change something major, plot wise, that compromises the over all story (which would never happen as Martin is heavily involved)

They can totally compromise the story regardless of what GRRM is doing or says, or how involved he is.  He has ZERO veto power and the writers can do whatever they want.  Sure, they probably want to follow the book for the most part, but it's their baby (like GRRM has said himself) and they have shown us several times that they will do whatever the hell they want.  I really doubt GRRM would approve of Robb having a wedding in front of the Seven or a ton of other things that have happened in the show.  But they happen because he has no control over any of it.  I think some people are overestimating how much power GRRM has in the show.  He is a consultant...he gives feedback sometimes.  He writes one episode a season, but he is nothing compared to the power that D&D have in the show.  And he'll tell you that himself.