350 replies to this topic

[dtones520]

lojzelote, on 04 June 2012 - 01:07 PM, said:

I know that every time we saw Robb pray, it was in the godswood, but I guess the TV producers just made a change (as they've changed everything) and now Robb prefers his mother's faith to his father's.Yes, it doesn't really make sense if the dominant religion of the North are the old gods, but I don't think the Northern lords will hate him this particular aspect of his marriage.

Answer me this, how do you think book Robb got married while he was in the Crag? Do you think he got married before a Weirwood? If you do, explain how that makes any sense given what we know of the South.

[Jamie Lannister]

I was hoping the show would justify my shameless affinity for House Bolton.

It did, but I don't think it was intentional.

[Christine K]

Kernest, on 04 June 2012 - 12:28 PM, said:

When Jaime tried to escape, and then when Catelyn let him escape with Brienne, Lord Karstark (bearded old dude) makes a few references to the seven when talking about Jaime killing his son.

edit: If my memory serves me right it's established that of the Stark bannermen, Manderlys (White Harbor) follow the seven, while rest keep to the old gods. Individuals within houses could still probably keep different gods, or pray to both.

Thank you!

[The Third Reed]

Versiroth, on 04 June 2012 - 11:34 AM, said:

It's no more annoying than people saying the show is garbage because of small details that no one but the most obsessed book readers would notice.   Nitpicks are fine and dandy.   But when nitpicks turn into "OMG, they ruined so and so's character completely!!" then some people have taken the nitpick to an extreme level.

It's not a small detail. Robb is systematically being stripped of any sympathy.

[Versiroth]

The Third Reed, on 04 June 2012 - 02:17 PM, said:

It's not a small detail. Robb is systematically being stripped of any sympathy.

No.  His story will end up being a tragedy regardless.   Whether he married for love or married because he bedded a lady and felt honor bound to marry her after, the end result is that it leads to his demise.   And the fact that it was for love likely makes it even more real for most people watching the show as it's something they can relate to.    Plus, unlike in the book where all we see is Robb leave for the Crag, come back married... we actually got to see the reason for his eventual downfall.   Some times, the show can do a story more justice.   Robbs is definitely one of those, IMO.    We got to see a story from him instead of merely hearing/seeing things from Catelyn's perspective.

[TheIronCaptain]

who is this talissa wench??? it is obviously jeyne but why hasnt that been established yet? i mean come on theres enough drama in robb marrying a daughter of the lannister bannermen but still...you dont have to make her reveal it after the wedding thus creating unnecessary drama from thin air. plus robb doesnt even know about his brothers supposed deaths, he wasnt injured and nursed back to health by jeyne, he didnt have an internal struggle to do the right thing and marry jeyne after he took her. plus, is richard madden going to grow out his hair for season 3, if i recall correctly robb had badass long hair and he had a bitchin crown too. it just added to his awesomeness and he really became like a king of winter from old with that straight winter swag.

[lojzelote]

dtones520, on 04 June 2012 - 01:46 PM, said:

Answer me this, how do you think book Robb got married while he was in the Crag? Do you think he got married before a Weirwood? If you do, explain how that makes any sense given what we know of the South.

Honestly, I don't know. And don't care, truth be told. I offered a possible explanation that came to my mind.
I think that Book!Robb married under the Seven because of lack of weirwoods in the South. It was a rash act. Show!Robb seemed to have it all planned out when he spoke to his mother. I would expect him to ride for Riverrun where a godswood is. It's not as if they had to be married immediately.

Edited by lojzelote, 04 June 2012 - 03:30 PM.

[TheDarkOne]

hk47, on 04 June 2012 - 11:56 AM, said:

Do the writers even give a shit?  Honestly??  Is it THAT hard to get the religions straight???  Don't they have a asoiaf-fact genius or whatever with them on set??  What is going on??



They can totally compromise the story regardless of what GRRM is doing or says, or how involved he is.  He has ZERO veto power and the writers can do whatever they want.  Sure, they probably want to follow the book for the most part, but it's their baby (like GRRM has said himself) and they have shown us several times that they will do whatever the hell they want.  I really doubt GRRM would approve of Robb having a wedding in front of the Seven or a ton of other things that have happened in the show.  But they happen because he has no control over any of it.  I think some people are overestimating how much power GRRM has in the show.  He is a consultant...he gives feedback sometimes.  He writes one episode a season, but he is nothing compared to the power that D&D have in the show.  And he'll tell you that himself.

This is really at the heart of it. It's no different than having the kids flee Winterfell at the end of the episode when, if you follow the story, there should be 500 Northern soldiers outside and no reason for them to be told to leave.
Kind of like turning Stannis into a card board cut out bad guy.

Those of us who love this story don't want to see the essence of the story change. It doesn't matter what medium it's presented in. Also, it's not so much as many people here stereotype in regards to people losing it about what's being left out, it's what is making the cut!  Jeez, can't we at least get the things we decide to film right?

I don't think GRRM likes this anymore than we do and I would guess he is abstaining from offering an honest opinion for financial reasons and because the show is a path to the source material.
Regardless, it blows me away how defensive people are about the HBO show and the attitude that we must respect this and be very thankful we have anything. No, I don't think so. There's things I like, things I don't, and I believe these can all be discussed without being classified as a hopeless devote of the books who can never be pleased. That's nothing more than a cop out of valid criticism.

[Ned's Epic Beard]

This really pissed me off. I literally face-palmed myself while watching this scene. King of winter and follower of old gods reciting southern words in his own marriage . This will cause the confusion to the viewers and abolish the religion difference between south and north and hence the culture.

I think that writers are making real efforts to make Starks less sympathetic. In books, Robb married Jane because he deflowered her in his hour of grievance (over his brothers death). Certainly it was a bad decision and Fray got an excuse for Red Wedding but one can sympathetic with Robb that anyone can make mistakes in such situation.  Now TV Robb, marries this girl just to spite his mother and for love. Not cool.

Also in brienne/jaime scene, Starks men are raping and murdering girls instead of bolton men. Seems like an effort to make starks more grey characters.

[sumpthy]

Ned, on 04 June 2012 - 04:16 PM, said:

Also in brienne/jaime scene, Starks men are raping and murdering girls instead of bolton men. Seems like an effort to make starks more grey characters.

And? Stark men raped and murdered in the books too. It doesn't change Robb's or Ned's character. They're not ordering rapes, they're not even authorised them. It's just something the soldiers did.

[Direwolf Lager]

glad other people caught this too. it makes u wonder if the writers have ever even read A Song of Ice and Fire

[The Monkey]

Maybe it's a symbol of Robb's further distancing himself from the northern cause (and the northern lords), by being married if front of the southern Gods?

Edited by The Monkey, 04 June 2012 - 04:46 PM.

[Ned's Epic Beard]

sumpthy, on 04 June 2012 - 04:26 PM, said:

And? Stark men raped and murdered in the books too. It doesn't change Robb's or Ned's character. They're not ordering rapes, they're not even authorised them. It's just something the soldiers did.

Stark men raped and murdered in the books? I thought it was just bolton men. Guess I need a reread.

[sumpthy]

Ned, on 04 June 2012 - 04:44 PM, said:

Stark men raped and murdered in the books? I thought it was just bolton men. Guess I need a reread.

Yep. At least according to the Brotherhood. Like I said though, it would be a bit black & white if it was just the men who serve the 'bad guys' murdering and raping, that's not the world Martin created.

[dtones520]

What happened to the posts in this thread over the past few hours?

[Darth Pipes]

Having the North suddenly worship the New Gods really showed how flawed and lazy the writing has become (at times) this season.  But it goes with the odd choices of the Riverlands being completely ignored this season and not delving into subjects like guest rights and kinslaying.

[Jolene Brown]

sumpthy, on 04 June 2012 - 04:53 PM, said:

Yep. At least according to the Brotherhood. Like I said though, it would be a bit black & white if it was just the men who serve the 'bad guys' murdering and raping, that's not the world Martin created.

Those were Karstarks though, who had basically abandoned the Stark cause at that point and were focused on hunting down Jaime Lannister.  I'm not invested in the purity of the Starks, by any means, but I do think this is a distinction.

[scurvy]

When I saw the scene I was confused.  Talisa is not Jeyne and not Westrosi so she doesn't follow the Faith of the Seven.  Robb is not Southron and follows the Old Gods.  If he were marrying Jeyne, fine.  But, he's marrying a foreigner, so it makes no sense other than a blatant fuck up.

[SerMixalot]

My take is that they attempted to fuse the two religons into one.  Ned worshipped at the weirtrees, cat to the 7.  WF had a sept.  Sansa at least was explicitely stated as having been raised in both religons, so presumably were all the kids.  Holding the 7 ceremony in front of a tree was perhaps their attempt at fusing the two religons?

Each hold, castle even in the south is supposed to have its own heartwood.

[Darth Pipes]

Robb's storyline has unfortuneately been the worst of the season and they made the worst possible change to his story last night.  I'm not talking about marrying under the light of the seven but the fact that he married out of selfishness and pettiness instead of honor.  Robb was stupid to marry Jeyne in the books but at least it was out of a misplace sense of honor.  He didn't want to dishonor Jeyne.  Stupid but understandable.  TV Robb though...he gets turned on by watching Talisa amputate a guys foot, talks endlessly with her, gets pissed off with his mom, and then declares he doesn't want to marry the Frey girl, has sex with Talisa, and then decides to marry her after getting pissy with his mom again.

Not only have they been ignoring the Riverlands this season but they've seemingly been ignoring Robb's actual agreement with the Freys.  The bridge was the pressing issue to be certain but despite the claims of Robb and Talisa, he didn't agree to the marriage pact just to cross a bridge.  He entered it so he could bring thousands of Frey forces under his command.  But he thew that all away without even struggling with his decision.  He complains that his father is dead but how is marrying a woman who has less military value than Book Jeyne going to help his cause?  TV Robb calls Jaime an oathbreaker but he's no different now.  He's not even half as honorable as his father.