155 replies to this topic

[Domelition]

The fact that Dany met her love at the place Jon Snow is currently guarding.  Hmmm?

[dreamcatcher]

turdle, on 04 June 2012 - 03:23 PM, said:

my first impression, was that it was ash in the throne room, it's hard to say for sure. it could easily be snow, but i'm still leaning toward ash since they took such efforts to describe what happened to harrenhal a couple of episodes ago, and the roof appears to have been burned open much like harrenhal.  my interpretation of this is a bit of a warning to dany, in that, trying to take the iron throne will destroy the realm.

The director said it's snow in the great hall in the commentary.

[Fragile Bird]

UselessOpinion, on 04 June 2012 - 03:18 PM, said:

I looked at her venture into the throne room as both being a temptation and as a revelation of what is to come. They could just have easily have put the tent with her child out in the Dothraki Sea, but instead they chose to put it out in the north, and there's significance to that.

I kind of see it as a vision into the future: she sees what will happen when the Long Night finally comes.

First post, Useless Opinion, welcome to Westeros.  I can't stop laughing at your name, I'm not sure I'd like my posts to be labelled useless opinion, but there may be a hard core truth in that, lol!  Post often, so we can tell!

Yes, I agree, Drogo and her son are there north of the Wall.  I have to take this as being meaningful and not just a red herring.

[Bearsblood8]

Does anyone think Hodor's reverent whispered "Hodor" while leaving Maester Luwin reveals a greater brilliance and subtlety than Littlefinger has shown all season?  (Not as an actor, but as a character)

To add relevance, is this foreshadowing Hodor's perceptive abilities?

Edited by Bearsblood8, 04 June 2012 - 03:38 PM.

[turdle]

dreamcatcher, on 04 June 2012 - 03:25 PM, said:

The director said it's snow in the great hall in the commentary.

there's commentary already? geez. either way, i still think the roof is supposed to have been burned by her dragons.

[dreamcatcher]

turdle, on 04 June 2012 - 03:30 PM, said:

there's commentary already? geez. either way, i still think the roof is supposed to have been burned by her dragons.

Yeah, I mean, commentary, inside the episode, whatever, I don't know which is which =) It's just the fake snow that looks like ash.

[UselessOpinion]

Fragile Bird, on 04 June 2012 - 03:25 PM, said:

First post, Useless Opinion, welcome to Westeros.  I can't stop laughing at your name, I'm not sure I'd like my posts to be labelled useless opinion, but there may be a hard core truth in that, lol!  Post often, so we can tell!

Yes, I agree, Drogo and her son are there north of the Wall.  I have to take this as being meaningful and not just a red herring.

Thanks for the welcome

Ya. I think the snow and the North is the most important part of that. In the book the visions mostly just highlight what is or is going to happen with the current players of The Game. It shows the red wedding, the mumur's dragon, etc.

I think they opted to show the north and the destroyed throne because at that time the biggest threat to the world (the Others) has finally come out, and it's hinting that Dany is needed back in Westeros.

[Fragile Bird]

Bearsblood8, on 04 June 2012 - 03:28 PM, said:

Does anyone think Hodor's reverent whispered "Hodor" while leaving Maester Luwin reveals a greater brilliance and subtlety than Littlefinger has show all season?  (Not as an actor, but as a character)

To add relevance, is this foreshadowing Hodor's perceptive abilities?

I'll have to catch a re-run tonight and see that again.  Hodor says so little, what do you think he's saying?  Is he telling Luwin, you can trust me to look after them?  Is he telling the TV audience, Hodor's going to be here?

dreamcatcher, on 04 June 2012 - 03:34 PM, said:

Yeah, I mean, commentary, inside the episode, whatever, I don't know which is which =) It's just the fake snow that looks like ash.

That's funny.  I can see just from this thread that people are suggesting ash, but the roof is long destroyed and the throne room is exposed to the elements.  It was perfectly clear to me that it was snow falling, not ash from a burned roof.

[Hasfast]

I am a strong believer that this show has much to see that isn't present in the books. We can have a look into characters that are only superficially staged into the scheme in the books... and events are also presented in a different manner. But this is not just some adaptation, Martin is there the whole time even if he's not personally writing all the episodes. The modifications should be taken seriously, and not just as meaningless props to both attract audiences and keep readers satisfied.

I think that Quaithe's parts with Jorah are as relevant in the series, as those with her and Dany are in the books, for example. Also, the fact that at the end of the episode she discovers Xaro's vault to contain nothing, and Doreah to have betrayed her, we might understand it as the meaningful "Slayer of Lies" she gets from the Undying in the books.

All the visions of the house are significant to me. It reminded me the Temple of the Thousand Doors in The Neverending Story, when Bastian has to choose his path based on his will. In this case, Dany chooses not by the "Right and Up" in the books, but by the sound of her dragons calling to her. It struck me how she refused the Throne when she heard the cries. It also struck me how she passed down and beyond the Wall, always with the symbolic presence of snow and ice (And the blasted ceiling, much like Harrenhal). I also thought that Drogo and Rhaego were there to hinder her. She remembers Mirri's foretelling and leaves an empty thing, much like the body she'd slain when she finally understood that Drogo was no more.

I think this show is really giving us pieces of information that we can trust. D.R.

[Bearsblood8]

Fragile Bird, on 04 June 2012 - 03:37 PM, said:

I'll have to catch a re-run tonight and see that again.  Hodor says so little, what do you think he's saying?  Is he telling Luwin, you can trust me to look after them?  Is he telling the TV audience, Hodor's going to be here?

I just thought it was such an interesting subtle piece to throw in there.  Instead of his usual boisterous "Hodor" we get a quiet, assuring "hodor" softly spoken with dignity.  I think this speaks volumes to Hodor's emotional intelligence and trustworthiness.

[UselessOpinion]

Hasfast, on 04 June 2012 - 03:37 PM, said:

I am a strong believer that this show has much to see that isn't present in the books.

I agree completely. They even cleared up that Moore was Cersei's assassin. I always thought it was Littlefinger who had arranged it after Tyrion discovered him embezzling money.

[WinterWarrior]

I definitely felt the scenes with Dany in the throne room and at the Wall were meaning that she would end up there. Fire will meet Ice. Dany will meet up with Jon Snow. And during the Winter that is coming soon to Westeros, so it will be sooner and then the Spring follows.

I am not as sure what the Drogon and Rhaego scene was about, but I loved it. I am going to watch the episode again tonight to see if I can catch more. Maybe what she has lost along the way to reach her destiny - which is at the Wall?

[Bearsblood8]

Hasfast, on 04 June 2012 - 03:37 PM, said:

I think this show is really giving us pieces of information that we can trust. D.R.

I'd like to believe this, but I'm not sure I'm willing to put that much trust in the series yet.  I do believe time, effort and serious thought have gone into every change they've made in the series.  They aren't just writing wholesale changes for self-gratification.

As such, I think we can cautiously analyze any prophetic scenes we get in the series

[Sun]

The throne room we saw was burnt by fire and overtaken with snow. I took that to mean that Westeros will suffer a war between Ice and Fire, with Dany on one side and the Others on the other. Both forces of destruction.  In the end, the Iron Throne will remain standing, but only as a symbol of what once was - Westeros very nearly destroyed - and that Dany will never sit on it.
Drogo and her son in a tent beyond the wall, I took to mean that Dany will die fighting the Others.

Edited by Sun, 04 June 2012 - 03:57 PM.

[Bearsblood8]

WinterWarrior, on 04 June 2012 - 03:50 PM, said:

I am not as sure what the Drogon and Rhaego scene was about, but I loved it. I am going to watch the episode again tonight to see if I can catch more. Maybe what she has lost along the way to reach her destiny - which is at the Wall?

Wouldn't her destiny in this case be either dead with Drogo (the last of the visions) or with her dragons, her ultimate destination in the HOTU?  Ifyou wanted to get even more metaphorical you could see her love for her "children" leading her into what feels like a binding set of chains only to be freed by this love in the end?  This might be consistent with her struggles protecting her children in Essos and her inability to abandon Mereen...

[Whore of Tarth]

I did enjoy the HOTU. It was a great little pointer towards Jon, KL and The Wall. We obviously know Aegon will be marching towards KL, i'm wondering will Dany have to choose between Aegon or Jon, when she returns? I think they will be the 3 heads, Drogon w/ Dany, Viserion with Aegon and Rhaegal with Jon. Dany will then have to choose between Aegon, at KL and Jon at The Wall.

I also liked the LF/Sansa scene today which is forshadowing the "lie" regarding Lysa/Marillion. I also noted the nod/glance thingy between Sansa and Tyrion last  week. Really looking forward to next season. ASoS is my favourite book


1st Post

[Hasfast]

Bearsblood8, on 04 June 2012 - 03:51 PM, said:

I'd like to believe this, but I'm not sure I'm willing to put that much trust in the series yet.  I do believe time, effort and serious thought have gone into every change they've made in the series.  They aren't just writing wholesale changes for self-gratification.

As such, I think we can cautiously analyze any prophetic scenes we get in the series

One thing that absolutely changed my perspectives was that, when she's pleading with the Thirteenth (Who are all dead in the show, save for Xaro, and he will die soon in that vault), she says that without her, her dragons will die. I might be wrong, but Dany never says that in the books. She thinks at times that her dragons depend on her, but she never goes as far as to think that they'll perish without her... And in this episode, she's even reassured of that by Pyat Pree, when he says that Magic is strongest near the dragons, and they are strongest near her. It would seem that their survival (At least in their present state) is only possible if Dany's with them, or merely alive? Certainly, anyone could learn how to take care of dragons, albeit with the obvious susceptibility to fire... Why the strong suggestion that she's the only one capable of raising them? D.R.

[Mediumjon Umber]

I've heard that GRRM has told DnD how the books are roughly going to end, and I fear they had a brain fart when they wrote the bit about the throne room. I think the Winter and the Others are going to overtake KL, which means she will never sit on the throne. Or something like that...

[King Lobster]

The ending shows clearly that

Spoiler

Sam is Azor Ahai / The Prince who was Promised / Warrior of Light / Son of Fire ...
Gilly is Nissa Nissa

It is known

[Bearsblood8]

Hasfast, on 04 June 2012 - 04:03 PM, said:

? Certainly, anyone could learn how to take care of dragons, albeit with the obvious susceptibility to fire... Why the strong suggestion that she's the only one capable of raising them? D.R.

This is certainly a provocative inquiry as it calls in to question the effectiveness of Victarion's dragon horn...