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[BOOK SPOILERS] Jaime & Brienne - revisited


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#1 Katydid

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Posted 04 June 2012 - 11:46 AM

I thought their scene was beautifully done, yet again. These two have had less than 10 minutes of screentime together so far, but have been knocking it out of the freaking park. Their storyline next season promises great things!

I've seen a complaint or two about show!Brienne being a little more brutal than book!Brienne at this point, but I think it worked in this scene. The third guy she gave a slower death to had been laughing & taunting the loudest, and he was the one who insinuated a slow, painful death for the third woman. Brienne was extracting a little vengeance on behalf of the innocents.

Jaime's reaction when she unleashed was what I really enjoyed. The Kingslayer himself, jaw dropped and speechless. Awesome!

If they don't backtrack to the river and give us the Ryger/Stark chase next season, I'm glad they introduced an element of teamwork in this scene. In the book, Jaime distracts Ryger so Brienne can get to the top of the hill without being brought down by the archers; here it was Jaime covering for her by annoucing himself a pig thief when she got stuck, and her following along with the charade immediately. These two are just FUN. (And incidentally, it would be fantastic if they DO backtrack them to the river, so Brienne can drop a few rocks.) /smile.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' />

#2 Ciglon

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Posted 04 June 2012 - 02:23 PM

I agree, most people seem to really downplay how amazing these two characters have fit into their roles and how great their scenes are together.

#3 Milcov

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Posted 04 June 2012 - 03:36 PM

I loved the scene in this episode with the three Stark soldiers

#4 Sheep the Evicted

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Posted 04 June 2012 - 04:08 PM

Well as a scene from a TV show i actually quite liked it, the only bit i didn't like was Brienne's derisive "stay!" In the books Jaime would have killed her for that comment. But thinking about it some more now i'm not a fan of how hard they are making Brienne; she was meant to be the only true knight in the series and they have gone and given us the Hound. Funny how they have softened every other "good" character in the show and hardened Brienne instead.

Edited by Sheep the Evicted, 04 June 2012 - 04:47 PM.


#5 Direwolf Lager

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Posted 04 June 2012 - 04:11 PM

tv brienne is badass and the kingslayer is her bitch

#6 Mediumjon Umber

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Posted 04 June 2012 - 04:26 PM

I like the TV version of Brienne more and more. In the books she was always depressed when people mocked her or did something wrong and I always wanted to scream at her to take it like a woman for god's sake. If she can't be respected, she can always make people fear her. Now I know that that's not what GRRM wants to tell us with Brienne, but for me it's pretty satisfying to see what turns TV Brienne's character arc is taking.

#7 The Last Reyne

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Posted 04 June 2012 - 04:54 PM

I have to admit this is one change from the book I like. While I hope they don't go too far with her I do like this stronger more confident Brienne.

#8 Katydid

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Posted 04 June 2012 - 06:17 PM

Well as a scene from a TV show i actually quite liked it, the only bit i didn't like was Brienne's derisive "stay!" In the books Jaime would have killed her for that comment.


I quite liked her "stay!" command, because it was very different from her actions in the beginning of the scene. She initially tied him to a tree. After they faced down the Stark men together (before Brienne ripped them to shreds!), she decided against tying him back to the tree, trusting him rather to stay put while she saw to the women.

We know these two come to trust each other deeply as their story progresses. They've gotta start somewhere. /smile.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' />

#9 Anvilbreaker

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Posted 04 June 2012 - 07:23 PM

I am sorry but I have to disagree about how they handled Brienne. In the book she struck me as so innocent at the beginning, almost as much as Sansa, and I enjoyed her slow corruptions as she and Jaime came closer to equilibrium. I was really hoping that that battle with the Brave Companions, or whatever they now replace that with, would be able to signal some final death of her innocence, as that was the first time she actually killed anyone. Now she is basically killing anyone who might try to hassle her.

#10 Lady Octarina

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Posted 04 June 2012 - 07:38 PM

I liked last episode's scene, and I'm sure now all scenes of those two will be just as great; such chemistry is really rare. But even if I love badass Brienne, I can't help but feel a little disappointed - not that she killed those guys, because, just like in the books, she only chose violence and killing when necessary, but because we are not shown, and probably won't be shown, the impact of those deaths on her. Not to mention that part of the reason why she kills for the first time in the books was avenging Jaime's hand, so to speak. But, meh, I'm ready to forgive that change after Jaime's admiring stare /drool.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':drool:' />

#11 Katydid

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Posted 04 June 2012 - 10:15 PM

As with all the other characters, there's unfortunately not enough time to delve into their POV-thoughts and development. I see both sides of show!Brienne becoming so violent so soon. But it's not as big a deviation from her book counterpart as some (aka Shae.) So I can deal. Yes, especially if Jaime starts making impressed moon-eyes at her that much sooner. /smile.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' />

#12 iheartseverus

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Posted 04 June 2012 - 10:50 PM

I love the subtle, interesting dynamic of Brienne in her clunky, sincere, relentless way, making it clear to Jaime that she's not in service to the Starks, she's in service to Catelyn Stark. This is an entirely new concept for Jaime (son of 'its all about the family name, individual members don't matter,' Tywin). The concept that a knight--a knight who craves true honor, as Jaime surely does--might swear himself to a person who he deems worthy of that honor, rather than blindly swearing alliegance to a House even when he knows in his soul that House is not worthy of honor. And that he, who wants above all to be a worthy, honorable knight, has... lessened himself... in his blind, arrogant service to House Lannister. He's learning, inch by inch, from Brienne. But it'll be a hard, slogging lesson, fought against tooth and nail, he has a lifetime of Tywin's 'family name above all' to undo.

#13 StarkWard

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Posted 05 June 2012 - 03:52 AM

Loved his stare during/after the fight, and the way he said, "Those were Stark men." with complete dumbfoundedness (Is that a word?). We really see how Jaime's opinion of Brienne changes. And will keep on changing.

#14 Catherine Storm

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Posted 05 June 2012 - 04:05 AM

I quite liked her "stay!" command, because it was very different from her actions in the beginning of the scene. She initially tied him to a tree. After they faced down the Stark men together (before Brienne ripped them to shreds!), she decided against tying him back to the tree, trusting him rather to stay put while she saw to the women.


I think her 'STAY' command was more out of confidence that he now knows what she's capable of... Silenced by fear (and respect)! /smile.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' />
Badass Brienne is badass.

#15 Iszlai Ádám

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Posted 05 June 2012 - 04:42 AM

I have to admit this is one change from the book I like. While I hope they don't go too far with her I do like this stronger more confident Brienne.

I think this stronger more confident Brienne is also alot more plainer and simpler, thus far less exciting.

#16 Sheep the Evicted

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Posted 05 June 2012 - 04:47 AM

I think her 'STAY' command was more out of confidence that he now knows what she's capable of... Silenced by fear (and respect)! /smile.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' />
Badass Brienne is badass.


Yeah i thought that was the implication the showrunners where making. Which as a major fan of book Jaime really stings.

#17 Buckwheat

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Posted 05 June 2012 - 05:56 AM

I liked their scene. The look on Jaime's face when he sees her fight is maybe the best moment of the episode. I also loved that they started cooperating now, how they siltenly communictated without words just before she attacked them.

I do not have much of a problem with a more violent Brienne, as long as their scenes stay that way.

#18 Clariana

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Posted 05 June 2012 - 07:58 AM

Now she is basically killing anyone who might try to hassle her.


Not so. She gave the three guys an out: "I work for the Starks. He is a pig thief..." If they had turned away and not persisted they would have lived. Instead one of them positively identified Jaime. She had no choice, word would get around...

#19 Tourniquet

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Posted 05 June 2012 - 08:37 AM

I agree, most people seem to really downplay how amazing these two characters have fit into their roles and how great their scenes are together.


The addition of this storyline (not just Cat releasing him) but seeing their journey together was by far the most enjoyable part of SoS!

#20 Currawong

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Posted 05 June 2012 - 10:13 AM

I can understand the concerns that we are just being shown Badass Brienne as a simplified character, but I think we have to give some thoughts to the problems facing the writers here.

The trouble with adapting Book Brienne for TV is that so much of what we learn about her and her background in thebooks is ONLY through her POVs in AFFC. And SHOWING internal POVs is incredibly difficult, unless you have a lot of time to spend with an individual character and show them agonising over their actions or whatever (which they cannot do given the time limits of episodes), or are able to do some sort of exposition scene, arrange for her to have a reasonable dialogue with someone, etc. Catelyn in the books commented about the "walls' that Brienne had erected around herself and how little she showed to others, and even Book Brienne is certainly not about to confide her insecurities to Jaime Lannister right now!

So HOW exactly are the writers going to show TV viewers that killing people was a big deal for her? Let's face it - she was quite prepared to heave a boulder onto a pursuing boat full of soldiers, when that could have killed or injured some of them, so even Book Brienne is prepared to kill at ths stage. And outwardly, Book Brienne does appear to be just a rather taciturn person, yet extremely competent when it comes to Action, which is what Jaime first notices about her whenhe reads her eyes and sees she is not panicking, but assessing options when the galley is pursuing them. If we simply look at what we see about Brienne in the books at this stage, we really wouldn't get anything about her inner issues.

I am hoping that the writers will be able to show us some of her inner complexities and softer side once she and Jaime get captured by the Bloody Mummers, and he loses his hand. Then there will be an opportunity for them to show her gentle side in caring for him, and possibly have some additional dialogue between them as they start to understand each other better. It woud make dramatic sense to have some of her POV background we get in AFFC brought forward to conversations with Jaime. We have already seen her loyalty and determination, so giving us Badass Warrior Brienne at first should set up a nice contrast for later Brienne (well, I hope it does!)

Edited by Currawong, 05 June 2012 - 10:26 AM.