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[Book Spoilers] Stannis and Melisandre


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#1 Lord Wadsworth

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Posted 04 June 2012 - 12:40 PM

While I know Stannis choking Mel wasn't in the books. I have to say this was a change I really liked.

All throughout the books we see Mel pretty much leading Stannis around by a leash. It was really satisfying to see him get so pissed at her.

"Where is your god now? Will he save you?"

The way he chastises her about her comments on the war. The performance for Stannis just enhances the Stannis from the books.


Also, he fully acknoledges he murdered Renly.


Melisandre also seems a bit more manipulative with her magic, when she tells him to look into the fire.

Overall, Stannis has and always will be the best character.

#2 rebel

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Posted 04 June 2012 - 12:42 PM

Do you guys think he actually saw something in the fire, or was that just a Mel's trick?

#3 Lord Varys

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Posted 04 June 2012 - 12:43 PM

I have no problem with that choking scene. I'm much more irritated/afraid about the line considering Stannis sacrificing his family. This might to lead him intending to sacrifice Selyse and Shireen next season. Something he would never, ever considering if you ask me.

Stannis will eventually see something in the flames (a vision of the Night's Watch fighting off the Others at the Fist of the First Men), but as I see it he did not really see something this week. They would have shown it, if there had been something there, I guess.

Edited by Lord Varys, 04 June 2012 - 12:46 PM.


#4 Pellaeon

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Posted 04 June 2012 - 12:46 PM

I have no problem with that choking scene. I'm much more irritated/afraid about the line considering Stannis sacrificing his family. This might to lead him intending to sacrifice Selyse and Shireen next season. Something he would never, ever considering if you ask me.

Hope they won't replace Edric Storm with Shireen

Edited by Pellaeon, 04 June 2012 - 12:54 PM.


#5 Jory

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Posted 04 June 2012 - 12:47 PM

I have no problem with that choking scene. I'm much more irritated/afraid about the line considering Stannis sacrificing his family. This might to lead him intending to sacrifice Selyse and Shireen next season. Something he would never, ever considering if you ask me.


No, of course not. This is fan-fiction, though, so they'll do what they want, I'm sure.

#6 LAge dor

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Posted 04 June 2012 - 12:48 PM

Do you guys think he actually saw something in the fire, or was that just a Mel's trick?

Well if I believe Mel is not a fraud then I don't see how that could be a trick.

#7 LAge dor

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Posted 04 June 2012 - 12:48 PM

Hobe they won't replace Edric Storm with Shireen

They just cast her, why would they do that?

#8 Kernest

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Posted 04 June 2012 - 12:48 PM

I absolutely loved that change. Stannis is the character I identify with in the books, despite being led on by Melissandre. The Stannis in the series, who sees religion more as a tool makes me like him even more.

#9 Artemis

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Posted 04 June 2012 - 12:49 PM

The choking scene was a little...over-the-top, shall I say? I understand he's frustrated and pissed off but Stannis, look, you're the one that decided to put your faith in a dodgy sorceress who had visions that ended up leading you to sacrifice thousands of your men at Blackwater. I love Stannis in the book but I was frowning throughout that whole scene on TV.
"The night is dark and full of terrors" was more like "the night is dark and full of strangles" in this episode's case.

#10 Pellaeon

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Posted 04 June 2012 - 12:55 PM

They just cast her, why would they do that?

"Dramatic character arc", And why did they cast her anyway? They didn't need her in this season and what is she suppose to do in the next?

#11 Affcwasmyfavorite

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Posted 04 June 2012 - 12:59 PM

I Love the Book Stannis more than any character in the series, and honestly I've warmed up to this TV Stannis as well, but at the same time my non-book reading friends now think Stannis is evil, re-watching the entire season with them last night, I can see it, and it makes me sad.

#12 sumpthy

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Posted 04 June 2012 - 01:01 PM

I Love the Book Stannis more than any character in the series, and honestly I've warmed up to this TV Stannis as well, but at the same time my non-book reading friends now think Stannis is evil, re-watching the entire season with them last night, I can see it, and it makes me sad.


It's the theme music. Stannis's theme is the most evil sounding thing on the show. It's more foreboding than what they played for the White Walkers or even the Greyjoys.

Also I thought Stannis was totally evil until the end of ASoS anyway so it's not far wrong.

Edited by sumpthy, 04 June 2012 - 01:04 PM.


#13 K.C.

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Posted 04 June 2012 - 01:02 PM

No, of course not. This is fan-fiction, though, so they'll do what they want, I'm sure.


The snark was undercut by the use of a term GRRM views as favorably as the Hound enjoys singing Kumbaya around the bonfire. Ten points from Gryffindor.

#14 rebel

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Posted 04 June 2012 - 01:03 PM

Well if I believe Mel is not a fraud then I don't see how that could be a trick.


I meant it as a trick to gain control over Stannis, like hypnosis, an illusion or something. As they have changed things I can understand how they wanted to reestablish Mels influence over Stannis after a major defeat...

... or Stannis could've actually seen a real vision, like the battle between the Night's Watch vs others etc.

#15 LAge dor

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Posted 04 June 2012 - 01:03 PM

"Dramatic character arc", And why did they cast her anyway? They didn't need her in this season and what is she suppose to do in the next?

Well Edric Storm has been dropped...

#16 Ser Wun Wun

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Posted 04 June 2012 - 01:06 PM

Also, he fully acknowledges he murdered Renly.


That right there cinched it for me, show Stannis >>>> book Stannis. I have always hated how book Stannis denied his part in Renly's death to Davos. It just seemed so hypocritical, given the nonsense attitude he takes with other people..

And of course show Stannis is a grammar Nazi who fights in the vanguard, is the first up the ladder and cuts off peoples heads...That's my kind of King! /biggrin.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':D' />

#17 LAge dor

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Posted 04 June 2012 - 01:07 PM

I meant it as a trick to gain control over Stannis, like hypnosis, an illusion or something. As they have changed things I can understand how they wanted to reestablish Mels influence over Stannis after a major defeat...

... or Stannis could've actually seen a real vision, like the battle between the Night's Watch vs others etc.

I think she let him share a vision with her, does not have to be a trick, and I agree could have very well been the wall but I also reckon she might have showed him death of either Joff/Balon/Robb since it would make more sense following her earlier prediction.

#18 Lord Varys

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Posted 04 June 2012 - 01:09 PM

Stannis is really pissed off in this scene. He really did everything what Mel asked of him, and he still did not got what he wanted, so he has every reason to be angry. And Mel being subservient to him and not trying to fight for her life (she could have easily killed him then and there, from what was revealed in ADwD) just underlines that she really thinks he is R'hllor's chosen one.

Since we never got detailed day-to-day impressions of Stannis and Mel's relationship, we cannot say for sure what happened between them after Stannis rejoined Mel on Dragonstone. But I imagine something rough. Remember how Davos's life hung by a thread after the whole Edric Storm thing. Mel might have very well been in the same situation immediately after the Blackwater...
It would have been much more powerful, though, if Stannis had blamed for Davos's death as well. Something like 'I've lost my only friend because of your empty promises'.

The problem with Shireen as Stannis's possible sacrifice will be that 1. the whole Selyse is a Mel fan plot would have to go, and 2. Stannis would actually consider winning the future on the expense of the present. What's the point in becoming king if you kill your only daughter and heir to gain the throne you want?

But considering that there will be 20 episodes from here until the very end of ASoS (and possibly some chapters of AFfC/ADwD as well), there would be still time enough to add Edric Storm as well. Either as Stannis's ward on Dragonstone, or by giving us an interpretation of the Storm's End story from ACoK in next season. There would be time enough for Stannis to capture Storm's End and take Edric to Dragonstone. Especially since they introduced Salladhor Saan without using him throughout season 2. His forces might come into play when they attack Storm's End.

Especially if Robb and the Tullys end up causing some trouble for Tywin and the Tyrells during season 3 as well. The Red Wedding is not going to happen before episode 9 of season 3.

And technically the end of the sacrifice plot should be when Stannis departs for the Wall. Which can only be as early as about episodes 5/6 of season 4, if they don't deviate to much from the books.

Edited by Lord Varys, 04 June 2012 - 01:10 PM.


#19 Djinn

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Posted 04 June 2012 - 01:12 PM

In my IMHO, that was pathetic. Stannis is supposed to represent determination(to the point of stuborness at times), having him mop around about Renly(someone that declared himself as a enemy of Stannis) is just absurd. Tv viewers will see Stannis from now on as a Villain, and that seem to be the intent of the Show producers. I personally don't really care about Stannis/Melisandre storyline from now on, they coulld just have died in Blackwater battle for all i care.

#20 Freyd Chicken

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Posted 04 June 2012 - 01:21 PM

From Mel's lines "you will betray the men serving you, you will betray your family, you will betray everything you once held dear" I got the impression that Stannis eventually will become the Nights King leading the WW, considering D&D know about how the story is going to end.

What do you think?