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[Book Spoilers] season 2 grade


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#1 turdle

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Posted 04 June 2012 - 12:42 PM

C+

now, for reference, i give season 1 a B+. i don't need the show to be a carbon copy of the books, but i can't help get frustrated when the changes they make hurt the greater story, and by far, that is what most of the changes did. even the one change that i really did like, theon beheading ser rodrik, doesn't quite add up in that, how did they capture rodrik? where are the men that were with ser rodrik?

but a couple of examples of changes that hurt the story:

1- the shadow

i knew they were going to do this, and at the time, it seemed like an ok thing to do, but combining the two shadows into one was a mistake. i've mentioned this in other threads, but the order the audience sees a shadow in action, and sees a birth are important because they indicate 2 different things. in the book, the shadow killing renly is our initiation into the shadow assassins, and the important question the audience has is, "where the hell did that thing come from?" which is answered later when melisandre gives birth to a second shadow. on the tv show seeing the birth first, the question the audience has is, "what the hell is that thing going to do?" the answer is, kill renly. the implication in the book is that melisandre is for real, and that you need to take her seriously. the tv show doesn't have a clear implication, is the shadow still out there? was it only supposed to kill renly? moreover, the shadows scenes were consecutive, so the setup had an immediate pay off as the start of the very next episode, with no further ramifications. it's a total deus ex machina to get renly out of the way and nothing more. and then we're left for like 3 episodes around mid-season with no davos, stannis, or melisandre. why not pace yourself, and have the shadow birth in there instead of shooting your wad at the beginning of the season?

2- jon snow/ygritte

i get it, they want to set up their relationship early so it has more impact later on. ok. but they did it at the expense of jon and qhorin half hand. not only that, but while the jon and ygritte scenes were somewhat amusing, they ultimately didn't go anywhere. it's just them wandering around talking for two episodes, sucking up screen time that could have been better used making qhorin a better, more interesting character than he ended up being.

3- arya's story is a mess

boy what hell arya went through this season, right? well... not exactly. it looked pretty bad at first, but after about episode 4, she had it pretty sweet. again, i don't need arya to go through exactly what she went through in the book, but hanging out with tywin lanister, exchanging clever banter, is no where near the hell she went through in the book. do you know who i felt the worst for at the red wedding? arya. after all she had been through to get so close to her mother and brother and then to have them taken away from her... how terrible. but they cut out SO much this season, which really, imo, undermines her character. combining her scenes and smashing bits of her story together might seem like a great idea in the writers room, but THAT'S THE POINT OF HER STORY, that she goes through SO MUCH. cutting away what she goes through HURTS HER STORY, and HURTS HER CHARACTER.

4- complete lack of build up

i acknowledge that acok is a harder book to adapt than agot is, but why on earth would you take acok, which is longer than agot, and try to fit it into a smaller hole. acok in less than a full season? they should have given acok more love. this season was the season of acok bullet points. no build up, no set up, just get from bullet point to bullet point. why did the citizens of kings landing riot? who knows? i heard non-readers after that episode talking about it like it was a planned attack and not a riot. there was virtually no sense of dread or foreboding north of the wall. i mean they were already at crasters keep in the first episode, and rather than actually having the NW come across an empty wildling's village, mormont just kind of says it, and it's no big deal, just a bit of a curiosity. and as great of an episode as blackwater was, the build up to that episode was basically reduced to two scenes in the prior episode where, a- tyrion and bron joke about a maesters name, and b- tyrion, joffrey, and varys start out talking about the coming attack, but end up just talking about how tyrion likes to "play the game."



i get that some changes need to be made for budget purposes and that's totally understandable. but the vast majority of the changes that i and others are bothered by are not a matter of budget, they're a matter of story telling. having said all that, i do think that, visually, they have done a very good job with all of the fantasy elements. i think the dire wolves look great, i think the dragons, wights, and white walkers all look cool. even the things that look different than the way they're depicted in the book, like the shadow, are well done. and the strength of the underlying story is strong enough to carry this tv show, imo despite the writing.

#2 Pellaeon

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Posted 04 June 2012 - 01:04 PM

C-
Blackwater rescue this grade

#3 Affcwasmyfavorite

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Posted 04 June 2012 - 01:20 PM

I regret reading the books during the downtime between Season1 and 2.(Edit: ok not regret I loved the books they were amazing- just wish I could purge the memories for when I watch the show xD)

When I first watched GoT with no knowledge of it ever having existed beforehand I thought it was the most pants-shittingly amazing TV show ever, I gave it a raving A+ and forced all my friends to watch it with me, they two all gave it raving A+s

When Season 2 came around I had finished book 5 and found I was VERY disappointed in this season, I gave the first 8 episodes an "Eh" rating, and was amused by 9 and 10.

I watched 1-9 with my non-reader friends before the Ep10 premier and they still reacted the same way to season 2 as they did one, with blissful pants-shitting excitement while I was left silently brooding over every little thing I thought they did wrong.

But for the joy, drinking and memories this series has sofar brought me and my friends, I give season two another A+

Edited by Affcwasmyfavorite, 04 June 2012 - 01:21 PM.


#4 teemo

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Posted 04 June 2012 - 01:22 PM

Comparing it to last season, I give it an D+ (thanks to Blackwater). Comparing it to other good shows on television, a B. Last season was an A.

Edited by hk47, 04 June 2012 - 01:42 PM.


#5 Fez

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Posted 04 June 2012 - 01:27 PM

A- (last season was a B+). The only real problem I have is how the show allocates its time; some characters get far too much screen time and others not nearly enough. The result being that some key plot points just seem rushed, and some minor things just drag on for far too long. Everything else is basically great (though the Others look a bit goofy).

#6 Reposado

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Posted 04 June 2012 - 01:28 PM

i get that some changes need to be made for budget purposes and that's totally understandable. but the vast majority of the changes that i and others are bothered by are not a matter of budget, they're a matter of story telling. having said all that, i do think that, visually, they have done a very good job with all of the fantasy elements. i think the dire wolves look great, i think the dragons, wights, and white walkers all look cool. even the things that look different than the way they're depicted in the book, like the shadow, are well done. and the strength of the underlying story is strong enough to carry this tv show, imo despite the writing.


I think that most of the problems are because of budget, even if indirectly. They need to cut characters, cut the amount of locations, use sets as much as possible, limit the wolves, etc.

I'm guessing part of the problem with Jon Ygritte was that they didn't want to cast the other rangers that are with halfhand. etc

it's partially because of budget that they are squeezing it all into ten episodes, which results in the cliff notes style of this season.

but yes, the problems with the narrative are legion. you summed up a lot of them, and they've all been discussed a lot.

I will agree with your C+. It's a top ten drama on TV but not a top 5. It's very entertaining but you have to squint to avoid all the plotholes.

#7 Djinn

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Posted 04 June 2012 - 01:29 PM

I'll give it a C. While season 1 was a B + or a A - for me, season 2 was much, much worse, were the episode 9 was a exception, a jewel in a sea of poor writing. Without ep 9 season 2 would have been a D -.

#8 Reposado

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Posted 04 June 2012 - 01:30 PM

Would you guys PLEASE refrain from watching season 3? I think both the production crew and the non-hysterical fans would be better for it.

I JUST. CAN'T. LISTEN. TO. THE. INCESSANT. BITCHING. ANYMORE.

In the immortal words of William Shatner: GET A LIFE!


Sorry about someone tying you to a chair and forcing you to read this thread.

And the production company does need to hear the gripes. I hope they realize that they bit off more than they could chew this year and didn't take enough time in production.

#9 BronnFan

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Posted 04 June 2012 - 01:34 PM

A - for me.

A lot of people's problems with Season 2 are really only minor quibbles for me.

Thought it was as good as the first season and if it can keep up a similar quality for the rest of its run then I'll be more than happy.

#10 Howdyphillip

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Posted 04 June 2012 - 01:35 PM

This is still the best show on television by a large margin... A+++++++++++++++++++++ from me.

I would rather watch one "bad" episode of GoT than any "good" episode of anything else on television. This does not mean that I don't want to throw my remote control through a wall sometimes while watching it, It just means that overall, my enjoyment with this show is almost boundless. I will actually mourne the day this goes off the air.

#11 turdle

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Posted 04 June 2012 - 01:36 PM

it's partially because of budget that they are squeezing it all into ten episodes, which results in the cliff notes style of this season.


i don't see how it would cost any more for them to have spread acok into the next season. if anything, it should have saved them money because they could have made more use out of the same locations and set pieces and characters instead of flying through them.

#12 Affcwasmyfavorite

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Posted 04 June 2012 - 01:36 PM

My only real gripe with the entire season this time was I felt like they paced each episode like an episode of House, the first 45minutes is slow and uneventful but as soon as the show hits the "15minutes left" area the show just speeds up and tries to wow you before the credits.

It feels like they spend a solid 5-10minutes on a POV then in the last 15minutes you get 3-5 POVs per5 minutes.

#13 Mark Antony

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Posted 04 June 2012 - 01:37 PM

agree with all the C grades, i'd give last season an A.

#14 dreamcatcher

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Posted 04 June 2012 - 01:39 PM

C+, the plus being Blackwater and all Arya scenes.

#15 turdle

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Posted 04 June 2012 - 01:40 PM

Would you guys PLEASE refrain from watching season 3? I think both the production crew and the non-hysterical fans would be better for it.

I JUST. CAN'T. LISTEN. TO. THE. INCESSANT. BITCHING. ANYMORE.

In the immortal words of William Shatner: GET A LIFE!


feel free to explain where i've missed the mark. i'm open to having my mind changed.

#16 Mr Fixit

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Posted 04 June 2012 - 01:41 PM

Sorry about someone tying you to a chair and forcing you to read this thread.


You're right about that one. I really seem to have masochistic tendencies. /dunno.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':dunno:' />

Guess I am just disappointed in the endless exaggerations, hyperboles, and wailing. Judging by the so-called "fans", this is one of the worst TV shows in recent memory. It is a silly, overwrought behaviour typical of children when someone takes away their favorite toy.

Edited by Mr Fixit, 04 June 2012 - 01:42 PM.


#17 turdle

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Posted 04 June 2012 - 01:51 PM

You're right about that one. I really seem to have masochistic tendencies. /dunno.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':dunno:' />

Guess I am just disappointed in the endless exaggerations, hyperboles, and wailing. Judging by the so-called "fans", this is one of the worst TV shows in recent memory. It is a silly, overwrought behaviour typical of children when someone takes away their favorite toy.


no it's not one of the worst tv shows, it's meerly a frustrating one. it's frustrating to those of us who know what could have been, and i'm less enthusiastic about the show going forward given that the content of acok is not that crazy in terms of battles or fantasy elements (which are the primary burdens on the budget), and asos content is much heavier both in terms of battles and also fantasy, how are they going to be able to pull that off. i hope they do, i hope they pull it together.

#18 WinterWarrior

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Posted 04 June 2012 - 01:53 PM

I'll give it an A.

I thought they did a great job and although it was not exactly what I wished for all of the time, they did a heck of a lot better job than I could have. I respect the artistry, great acting and sticking to the story line as much as possible - but it is not always possible. I love the show for what it is.

What would I like to see next season?

1) More Direwolf
2) More Dragon
3) Is she Jeyne Westerling or not?
4) As much of Arya as possible.
5) Sansa
6) The Hound
7) Jon Snow
8) Any way to kill of Cersei early?

#19 Sad King Billy

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Posted 04 June 2012 - 02:01 PM

I'd argue that this season was a collection of great scenes that together did not make a coherent and structured narrative. Each episode felt like it stood on its own, with a cliffhanger somewhere in there to foreshadow what will arrive in a next season.

#20 Ferrum Aeternum

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Posted 04 June 2012 - 02:20 PM

I'll give it a B+. Last season was a solid A.

Main demerit this season was the utter bungling of Jon's arc during the 2nd half of the season, pretty inexcusable really. The resolution of Dany's arc more or less redeemed some mid-season shakiness (although the HotU could have been stronger).