244 replies to this topic

[Margaery'sKickassGrandma]

Somehow, Jon's character has to persevere into Book 7.  (Note: I presume in all theories that Jon is the son of Rhaegar and Lyanna.  Technically, that would make Jon himself a 'Song of Ice and Fire'. But this is neither here nor there, except to provide a reason for him to make it into the last book.)  In what form and through whose power this will happen is a more complicated question.  Someone in one of the above posts mentioned that Jon might not have felt the fourth knife because it didn't actually stab him- interesting theory.  Maybe he was halfway to being saved between stabs three and four?  Did Melisandre put some sort of spell on him so that he couldn't feel it?  Could she have cast a 'glamour' on him (admittedly, I don't know how glamour-casting works) and swapped him into someone else's body?  Or is it because he's already warged on over into Ghost's body?  Did Benjen Stark return as all hell was breaking loose?  Could Bran and Friends somehow play a role from afar? So many, many possibilities, and I can't figure which is more likely than the rest.  A less possible idea is that to keep their freshly-assassinated Lord Commander from haunting them with wight-like ferocity, the NW attempts to burn Jon's body, only to find that the fire heals him, rather than destroys what was left of him.  Although, I would like to think that George-Double-R isn't going to have another (this time, surprise?) Targaryen proving their Dragondom by surviving from fire unburnt and refreshed.

Back to whether or not Melisandre herself will be the vehicle through which Jon survives- I believe it is entirely possible, but I am not married to the idea, either.  I'm also not entirely sure whether or not Melisandre was behind the stabbing to begin with- I will tell you that I think this is a bit odd:" The gangling steward backed away, his hands upraised as if to say, Not me, it was not me" (p. 913).  Marsh was crying as he stabbed Jon. Melisandre has been known to assassinate people from afar (ahem, Renly). Something else is afoot, and I'm not sure whether or not she is behind it.  Can't wait to find out what it is.  But I guess I will.

[weaselontherun]

Walking in here way late and haven't taken the to digest all posts on this thread, however here is my take:
Jon is critically wounded not dead
Castle Back not having a Maester to tend to those loyal to Jon will turn to Mel.
Mel will through the use of her powders, spells and knowledge will heal Jon
Mel will also recognize through teneding the wounds that Jon is of Kings blood thereby making him a target to full her prophesies of fire
During this healing period Jon will begin to understand how to hold other species in thrall beginning with Ghost, Mormount's Raven & Wun Wun. (See the Varamyr prolog)
This will become apparent when the bird starts whispering commands in Leather's ear. ( He's probably the omly NW who would recognize the significance.
Tormund and Leather will lead a Wilding force to Winterfell to free Mance Rayder ( you do know that Mance is a Blackfyre Targ decendant)
During that time Jon will recooperate and extend jis abilty to thall so much so that Ghost, the Raven and Wun Wun accompany the force to relieve Stannis and save Mance.
While Jon is unable to command a new Lord Commander is chosen. That Commander will come from the Queen's Guards and is not necssarily inducted into the NW.

Edited by weaselontherun, 30 June 2012 - 10:54 AM.

[RedViper_of_Dorne]

Quote

he had to die to leave the NW

I agree with this, and after this everything is possible for Jon all the paths are open...
But I am afraid some how in time maybe he will start to change

[Mussica]

After reading all the posts in this thread it seems the general idea is that Jon will be alive or brought back to life. While I would love that because Jon is one of my favorites i feel like GM is just dangling this in front of us and will just yank it away saying.."yeah he really is dead....gotcha!"

[BennyMW]

Mussica, on 08 July 2012 - 07:01 PM, said:

After reading all the posts in this thread it seems the general idea is that Jon will be alive or brought back to life. While I would love that because Jon is one of my favorites i feel like GM is just dangling this in front of us and will just yank it away saying.."yeah he really is dead....gotcha!"

ENTERTAINMENT WEEKLY: So why did you kill Jon Snow?
GEORGE R.R. MARTIN

: Oh, you think he’s dead, do you?

That interview just teases us, I for one think Jon may be momentarily dead, but will be revived by Mel. Warging into Ghost during the mean time. I hope so anyway.

[bemused]

I've said this before, but I haven't tired of the idea yet..

Jon is not dead , may even still be conscious, though groggy ( the writing is ambiguous. ).. Even though Mel would want to step in ( providing her order has skill in healing or resurrection ), she'll be wrapped up with Selyse, hysterical over Stannis... and Selyse will want her men around her , defending her and Shireen, few as they are.

Clydas knows quite a bit about healing.

And I wonder where Morna is ..It stands to reason that as a wildling leader she may have been in the sheildhall ( though unremarked )... as a witch and a warrior, she would almost certainly know something about treating knife wounds. ( this makes me wonder if wildlings have a milk of the poppy substitute..something derived from weirwoods , perhaps ? ) I've come to suspect Val is very likely a seer ( but not a healer ) and she may have to break her cover. ( I hope it doesn't put her in too much jeopardy )

I'm sure Jon will have some much needed development time with Ghost as he recovers , but I don't think it will be courtesy of Mel.We've been led very carefully to expect that.. which leads me to expect a switcheroo.

Edited by bemused, 08 July 2012 - 07:58 PM.

[The Blood Eyed Crow]

I don't know if anyone has suggested this yet, but is it possible Jon will be reborn much like Dany was when she went into the flames. I know many believe he will in fact die, but how he comes back is sort of the mystery. I'm thinking his funeral will be his rebirth.

I'm guessing if Jon is dead or appears dead they will burn his body the "Wildling Way" to prevent him from rising again, but what if burning his body results in his rebirth as the Targaryen many believe he is (in part)? Perhaps when he arises out of the flames is when he will becom Azor Ahai? Is it possible those that killed him will be burned alive and act like sacrifices in much the same way as what happened to Dany? Perhaps those ice dragons so many have been talking about will rise up when Jon also rises up. Maybe at that point Melisandre will be convinced of who he truly is. Just a random thought.

[aryagonnakill]

weaselontherun, on 30 June 2012 - 10:52 AM, said:

Walking in here way late and haven't taken the to digest all posts on this thread, however here is my take:
Jon is critically wounded not dead
Castle Back not having a Maester to tend to those loyal to Jon will turn to Mel.
Mel will through the use of her powders, spells and knowledge will heal Jon
Mel will also recognize through teneding the wounds that Jon is of Kings blood thereby making him a target to full her prophesies of fire
During this healing period Jon will begin to understand how to hold other species in thrall beginning with Ghost, Mormount's Raven & Wun Wun. (See the Varamyr prolog)
This will become apparent when the bird starts whispering commands in Leather's ear. ( He's probably the omly NW who would recognize the significance.
Tormund and Leather will lead a Wilding force to Winterfell to free Mance Rayder ( you do know that Mance is a Blackfyre Targ decendant)
During that time Jon will recooperate and extend jis abilty to thall so much so that Ghost, the Raven and Wun Wun accompany the force to relieve Stannis and save Mance.
While Jon is unable to command a new Lord Commander is chosen. That Commander will come from the Queen's Guards and is not necssarily inducted into the NW.

where do you get that mance is a blackfyre descendent?

[Rhaegar Targaryen's Ghost]

weaselontherun, on 30 June 2012 - 10:52 AM, said:

Tormund and Leather will lead a Wilding force to Winterfell to free Mance Rayder ( you do know that Mance is a Blackfyre Targ decendant)

where does it say this?

[JonTargaryenW/Viserion4WIN]

Could be that weaselontherun is trollin' you guys. But he could be referencing a *cp* theory that Mance is a descendant of Night's King??!!  

Not trying to put words in his/her mouth just saying I don't think that parenthetical remark was the point of his post

[pitakon]

I hope not. If he is still alive, it is not "gritty" enough. That's not what ASoIaF is about, the dead become undead, not alive by some miracle.

[Ittiz]

This is my take on this subject.  I think they stabbed Jon because they thought he was betraying the watch.  Pretty simple.  I think it was something that was probably previously talked about by his attackers in case he betrayed the watch.  However I think the attack itself was a spur of the moment thing taking advantage of Jon being destracted by Wun Wun.
Whether he will die and come back or just recover I don't know, but I don't think GRRM will kill him off.  This may be a tool to make him realize that he is a Warg (Like Bran's fall).  If he is the prince that was promised this could be very important.  I think this might also be a tool to remove Jon from the watch (If they think he's dead or he really is dead).  Although it's possible that the prince that was promised is in the watch it just seems akward and unlikely to me.
Also Dani and the Dragons are pretty important in defeating the others.  They will have to get there some how eventually.  When Jon knows he's a warg maybe he will be able to enter one of the dragons?

Edited by Ittiz, 14 July 2012 - 05:14 PM.

[dragsaw]

I dont think he is dead yet (from the stabing) i think odds are he will bleed out or get a infected stab wound or something any i bet one of the Nights Wach, a Wildling or Mel will know first aid, i will put money on (if he is alive) that Mel or a Wildling healer will patch him up

[weaselontherun]

For those wondering why I would blurt out Mance is a Blackfyre Targ
JTW/V is right it is stated or rumoured somewhere that Mance is descended from the NW
I believe at least one of the multiple Blackfyre bastards were in the NW
I believe "Mance Rayder" is a play on Targ given names "Aemon" and "Rhager"
The qualities given to Mance re intelligence, military, leadership & musical compare wellwith a Targ dead for what seventeen years.
Might be barking up the wrong tree but it would be a neat twist

[knifeyspooney]

I think that Mel will resurrect him. I think he will be trapped inside Ghost's body, but it will be all about Jon coming to terms with the fact that he is a warg. Every time he dreams he is living through Ghost, he shuns it away as if it were just a dream. I think Borroq will approach Ghost/Jon and try to take control of the Direwolf, but he will see that Jon is inside it and Melisadre will tell him that he needs JS to unlock the ability to slip inside his real actual body at the same time as his resurrection.

Also, if Jon is truly dead, and is then resurrected, will he be bound to the vows of of the nights watch? The vows state that his watch "will not end until my death". This leads me to believe that he is AA reborn and Longclaw will become Lightbringer. Mel will resurrect him, and he will destroy those who betrayed him.

I also believe that the free folk will become the new watchers on the wall, how that will happen, I'm not to sure, maybe open revolt on the Queens men and NW after JS's stabbing.

[FSBA]

Not sure how crackpot this idea sounds, but I wonder if Jon Snow's rebirth might cause him to turn "Super Saiyan" for the lack of a better term. During Jon's resurrection Rhaegar and Lyanna come to him to tell him of his true heritage. If Mel will have to burn Ghost, it would represent Jon killing the Stark side of himself. As Jon comes out of the fire, he now has silver hair and purple eyes. Jon Snow is dead. In his place is Jon, First of His Name, of the House Targaryen.

[Timbit]

TheDarkOne, on 27 June 2012 - 12:49 PM, said:

Do you believe the R+L=J?
If so, would he really be a Snow?

He is still Bastard born, even if his parents are both from highborn families. Example: Edric Storm (Baratheon & Florent) Any of the Blackfyres..

[JonTargaryenW/Viserion4WIN]

Timbit, on 19 July 2012 - 12:29 AM, said:

He is still Bastard born, even if his parents are both from highborn families. Example: Edric Storm (Baratheon & Florent) Any of the Blackfyres..

Not if you subscribe to R + L (by marriage) = J. Then he would have my name!

[aryagonnakill]

JonTargaryenW/Viserion4WIN, on 19 July 2012 - 07:08 AM, said:

Not if you subscribe to R + L (by marriage) = J. Then he would have my name!

That theory is not legally possible in the westerosi sense.  Rhaegar had wedded and bedded his other wife and she didn't die until after rhaegar.  However if rob legitimized jon in the name of his father instead of specifically saying that he was now jon stark... then he has your name.

[nothatso]

aryagonnakill, on 19 July 2012 - 11:36 AM, said:

That theory is not legally possible in the westerosi sense.  Rhaegar had wedded and bedded his other wife and she didn't die until after rhaegar.  However if rob legitimized jon in the name of his father instead of specifically saying that he was now jon stark... then he has your name.

There is no textual evidence that polygamy is illegal in Westeros from what I can recall, and even if it were I doubt the Targaryens would care. We're talking about people who practiced brother-sister incest despite it being taboo (and maybe even illegal itself?) throughout the rest of the realm. Regardless, the presence of the Kingsguard at the ToJ points to there being a marriage between Lyanna and Rhaegar. The Kingsguard does not defend mistresses and bastards, they defend the King first and foremost, and his legal, legitimate family second. None of them were with Viserys and Rhaella, the only three free remaining Kingsguard were at the ToJ. (I'd recommend any further discussion of this be taken to the R+L=J thread on the general board to prevent thread derailment)

Edited by nothatso, 19 July 2012 - 08:58 PM.