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[Book Spoilers] Arya's List


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So it seems that TV Jaquen knows about Arya's list and almost liked it. It seemed to me in the book that the Kindly Man would have disapproved of the list...

Does this make Jacquen more of a renegade/free thinking FM, again begging the question of what he was doing in Kings Landing and soon to be doing in Oldtown or are the FM a less strict organisation?

It seemed to me that whenever Arya stops being nobody and tries to leave then she will be killed but maybe I am reading this wrong and when she becomes somebody again then she will simply leave and her training will stop.

I read her becoming Arya again briefly in Braavos and subsequent blindness as a punishment but maybe it was a progression of her training with the death of the NW Bard being of little import to the grand scheme of things to the Many Faced God.

Could it be that there are a few part trained FM running about Westeros? It wouldn't be something you would share with your nearest and dearest lest suspicion would fall upon you or your friends and family ask things of you they shouldn't really. Lady Olenna maybe? I wouldn't expect there to be many as I would imagine the training and early missions could have a high mortality rate though I don't recall any stories of a FM knowingly being stopped...

Would the FM be happy just to know there are a few extra people sending extra offerings to the Many Faced God? They don't have a monopoly on death.

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I saw this as a huge, meaningful change from the books. Definitely not a nitpick.

The Kindly Man clearly tells Arya that Faceless Men do not get to choose their targets. They are instruments of the Many-Faced God, not independent assassins. Arya loses her sight after killing Dareon, not so much as a punishment (though she is "in trouble" for having killed without instruction) as to put her back on the right path. They would have taken her sight eventually, the Kindly Man says, but her actions made it necessary to take her to the next step a little sooner.

But Faceless Men **do not** get to use their skills to seek personal revenge.

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You've brought up an interesting point, and while the TV series is not cannon for the books, I don't think it is impossible that Jaquen knew about Arya's list when he knew other secret stuff like her true name.

Jaquen had to have seen something in Arya that made him believe that she was FM material, or he wouldn't have given her the coin and encouraged her to go to Braavos. I think the show did a great job of showing his interest in her, starting with the way he looked at her when she hit Rorge with her stick sword ("A boy has more courage than sense") and the great scenes they had together.

In my humble opinion, I still don't think we have enough information on the FM to fully make conclusions about all of their methods and motives. If Arya had gone with Jaquen, he would have taken her to the House of Black and White so he must not be a renegade or he wouldn't be reporting back to them. And yes, Arya did save him, Rorge and Biter from the fire so he said they needed to give three deaths to the Red God, but how does a FM make that decision. No one paid the price for deaths so if a FM is in mortal peril, he can be saved but then gets to kill someone else to take his place? Once we learned about how the FM are hired, I've always found what Jaquen did with Arya confusing. Maybe there are loose guidelines to what you can do with your assassin powers when you are out on a mission when it comes to your life.

I don't think Arya will truly become no one because of her Nymeria connection, but I am not sure how she will get out of there. It seems like such a secretive organization wouldn't just let people who change their minds leave, but perhaps Arya will be assigned to Westeros and once there, she can change her course without them immediately being after her.

Hopefully, we will learn more with her training and will have a better understanding of how they operate.

For the show, I've been wondering if they will let Jaquen train her instead of the Kindly Man since the actor was such a big hit. It wouldn't go with the books (especially if he really is the FM in Oldtown), but they've made worse changes.

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@sarah.jenice

At this point the motives and methods for the FM are indeed pretty obscure, though I believe RRM has some sort of logic in mind. So many characters and organizations in the series have these incredibly long-term agendas, it's often impossible to figure out what they are by what is presented or said. For instance, at first Varys seemed to be for what would seem to be mostly himself, or some vague notion of "the good of realm". But then underlying it all it seems he's part of a secret group trying to get the Targaryens back in power. But how do you hold true to a 20+ year plan anyway? Or maybe it's even something else?

The FM are so much older and more steeped in mystery that it would be very hard to say exactly how or why they do things. Their rules are pretty vague too, at least from the outside. Clearly there is something happening in Oldtown with one of them that took Pate's life, and that was not a standard "give the gift of death" situation. It was unlikely anyone even paid enough attention to Pate to care to ask/pay to get him killed. No, that was planned by the FM to assume his identity and get in with the rogue maester. They guy was waiting for Sam too, right?

And let's not forget, Arya is a novice. Masters or all kinds rarely tell an initiate all of the truth. Personally I believe she will stay and see it through. I love her arc more than almost any other in the series. She will have some important role to play out before the end I am sure.

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In the book, I believe the waif is the only person for whom we have a backstory as to how she became a recruit (well, except for Arya, of course). Her father had basically given her to the House of B&W in order to ask for the gift for her stepmother, who had been trying to kill the waif (if I remember correctly). The waif doesn't say anything about her own feelings on the matter, but I wonder if the she also wanted revenge, which is part of the reason she agreed to go. I also don't know if she says how old she was at the time.

Anyway, it's just interesting to think about--maybe feelings for revenge are a catalyst for becoming a FM more often than we think. The KM does say to Arya that it's unusual for a child to be a FM, which suggests most of the recruits are at least young adults.

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I saw this as a huge, meaningful change from the books. Definitely not a nitpick.

The Kindly Man clearly tells Arya that Faceless Men do not get to choose their targets. They are instruments of the Many-Faced God, not independent assassins. Arya loses her sight after killing Dareon, not so much as a punishment (though she is "in trouble" for having killed without instruction) as to put her back on the right path. They would have taken her sight eventually, the Kindly Man says, but her actions made it necessary to take her to the next step a little sooner.

But Faceless Men **do not** get to use their skills to seek personal revenge.

I don't think that angle has been ruined, at least not yet. And I doubt that all FM "recruits" arrive with that well-developed sense of "neutrality" already existing. Arya certainly didn't, because the whole reason she decided to "enlist" was revenge. Even while undergoing her training, she still keeps that mindset (and Needle). The FM know that, likely expect that, so part of her training is to keep the willingness to kill, but change the motivation.

In other words, the personal motivations she has for killing are not likely something that would disqualify her to Jaqen. The more important points that make her a desireable recruit are her intelligence and willingness to kill. The rest is up to the Kindly Man, so I don't think her character or arc has been materially damaged at all. And least, not yet.

I personally believe that she will, at some point, abandon the "neutrality" aspect, and revert to her former motivation of family, etc. But that remains to be seen in TWOW, etc.

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Also--in the book, I didn't feel like she really went to Braavos in order to become a FM. I feel like she went because she wanted to find Jaqen again. She had nowhere else to go, and despite his weirdness, I do feel like there was an emotional bond between them, and that he was a mentor/older brother or father type figure to Arya. Everyone else she had had that type of relationship with was either dead or out of reach (ie, Jon).

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In the book, I believe the waif is the only person for whom we have a backstory as to how she became a recruit (well, except for Arya, of course). Her father had basically given her to the House of B&W in order to ask for the gift for her stepmother, who had been trying to kill the waif (if I remember correctly). The waif doesn't say anything about her own feelings on the matter, but I wonder if the she also wanted revenge, which is part of the reason she agreed to go. I also don't know if she says how old she was at the time.

I also imagine the waif was given a choice to stay or go, as Arya was. Her father had to give her up as part of the price for the gift, but I just don't see the Faceless Men keeping her against her will. Of course, as a child, she really didn't have anywhere else to go, but it does seem she's found a place at the temple, and that it's her home now.

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