170 replies to this topic

[Bride of Winter]

ledlevee, on 05 June 2012 - 09:53 AM, said:

Another note:  Targs and dragons both equal fire.  White walkers and Starks both equal ice.  Could there be some sort of connection here?

I hope so! I have a really hard time believing that the destructive fire force (the dragons) will save the world by killing the "destructive" ice force (others). I'm sure dragons have killed just as many people as the WW, if not more. plus I highly doubt the Starks will hop to the fire side to destroy ice, when they pretty much embody everything about winter and the north.

Edited by Bride of Winter, 05 June 2012 - 10:57 AM.

[ChristophUL]

In the next shot it seemed like the White Walker never passed the boulder Sam was hiding behind.  Perhaps I saw it wrong.  Even White Walkers know a slayer when they see/sense one.

[Prince of Dragonstone]

We won't have more insight into this scene until it picks up again next year. That's kind of the point of a cliffhanger...

We as book readers know that Sam will survive, but show fans don't know if Sam is going to end up as wight food or not.

[Tadco26]

Drogon, on 05 June 2012 - 10:47 AM, said:

I've watched twice now, and think the black things on the ground are the pieces of pooh Dolorous Edd spilled from his container when he and Grenn ran off.  But presumably Sam does still have the dragon glass somewhere on his person?  Perhaps the WW senses that - or perhaps, as some have suggested, the camera angle was deceptive here, and he didn't really see Sam.

Even on the slim chance that this theory is correct it was poorly done.  The writers feel they have to spell out all of Littlefinger's plots as clearly as possible ahead of time, but they are going to ambiguously explain Sam being left alone because maybe there was some dragon glass on the ground, which on the show no one even knows will hurt them, and they in no way focused the camera on?

Why not just have Sam see it all from a distance?  Considering they are not constrained by point of views, they don't even need anyone else to be there for us to see that scene.

[Ser Greguh]

I think that the Walker didn't actually see Sam and that it was confusing / misleading direction.

[Morvran]

Stuntout, on 05 June 2012 - 10:29 AM, said:

Maybe because having wight Sam in their midst would seriously slow down the march?

Well if they were of the flesh-eating zombie variety it could end the whole war before it even began, however in this case Sam would go down in less than a second and the wights would move on.

My main issue now is that if we assume the WW/wight army did indeed let Sam live (or just walked right by him thinking he was a big fat rock), that puts Sam behind the army.  How could he possibly ever get around it to get back to the fist, grab Gilly, etc, etc etc?  (The answer of course is that he couldn't).

[So1ar]

Šedý vlk2375, on 05 June 2012 - 09:54 AM, said:

Question still stands then, if the Other knows he is there - whether via sensing him or actually seeing - why is he letting him live?  Maybe it is a "Predator" like reason - if he is unarmed and not a threat then they will leave them alone.  that doesn't really follow with what we have seen, but maybe it is the reason.

well, being unarmed didn't save the children in episode 1. i think D&D just wanted a dramatic final shot and didn't really think about how little sense it would make.

[Biff44]

I also wonder why Sam could not outrun a bunch of walking wights.  It is not like they were in full assault mode.  He gives fat guys like me a bad name, lol.

[BinkyBonks]

No use trying to excuse this. It was an utterly stupid scene. The dumbest scene in the universe. Unforgivable, really.

That's not even to metion the "three blasts" part of the scene, where all the suspension in the book is completely stripped away.

Edited by BinkyBonks, 05 June 2012 - 11:55 AM.

[SelaBela]

No ones mentioned this in any of the threads I've look at so far, but I have a feeling that theres something odd about the Fist of the First Men.  Ghost was uneasy there wasn't he? The White Walkers + wights didn't exactly follow and attack the fleeing members of the NW, it always seemed to me that they just wanted them off of the fist.  Am I wrong? I know the remaining black brothers held torches to stay together and make it back to Craster's Keep, but it wasn't to keep the Others away. The WW never attacked anyone in the books as far as I remember, the wights did though.  So maybe the "prime directive" so to speak that the WW gave the wights was to take back the Fist, not necessarily kill anyone, just whoever wouldn't leave the fist.  Which Sam was not technically *on*.

Thats why it really didn't bother me when they passed him by.  It could have been camera trickery like some have suggested but I somehow doubt that.

[BinkyBonks]

Prince of Dragonstone, on 05 June 2012 - 10:56 AM, said:

We won't have more insight into this scene until it picks up again next year. That's kind of the point of a cliffhanger...

The CLIFFHANGER should be they're attacking the Fist of the First Men. Which the non-book audience will have forgotten about by now.

Utterly crap writing. These people are mediocrities. Compare it with the previous episode, written by Martin himself.

Edited by BinkyBonks, 05 June 2012 - 11:58 AM.

[Howdyphillip]

So1ar, on 05 June 2012 - 11:10 AM, said:

well, being unarmed didn't save the children in episode 1. i think D&D just wanted a dramatic final shot and didn't really think about how little sense it would make.

So... Now you are blaming D&D for the story boarding? Sorry... that is a cinematographer's and a director's job. They shots were probably in the can, and they probably found out in editing the issue and didn't have enough time or money to re shoot. It's really not that big of a deal as it will obviously work itself out next season

[sagaz]

When the WW looks at Sam, Sam looks down and start to cry. The next shot is the wights (made of both wildlings an men of the NW) and others WW approaching. One of the wights has a round shield with a Stark direwolf!!!. (I saw the episode three times now)
According to the scene, we don't know what they are going to do with Sam. the guy look at him, and then look ahead...an open shot of the army, and then ended.
don't get ahead of yourselves, the scene is not conclusive, IMO.

[Tadco26]

SelaBela, on 05 June 2012 - 11:53 AM, said:

No ones mentioned this in any of the threads I've look at so far, but I have a feeling that theres something odd about the Fist of the First Men.  Ghost was uneasy there wasn't he? The White Walkers + wights didn't exactly follow and attack the fleeing members of the NW, it always seemed to me that they just wanted them off of the fist.  Am I wrong? I know the remaining black brothers held torches to stay together and make it back to Craster's Keep, but it wasn't to keep the Others away. The WW never attacked anyone in the books as far as I remember, the wights did though.  So maybe the "prime directive" so to speak that the WW gave the wights was to take back the Fist, not necessarily kill anyone, just whoever wouldn't leave the fist.  Which Sam was not technically *on*.

Thats why it really didn't bother me when they passed him by.  It could have been camera trickery like some have suggested but I somehow doubt that.

They weren't on the Fist when Sam killed the White Walker either and it killed Paul.

[Sulfurion Blackfyre]

Tadco26, on 05 June 2012 - 12:07 PM, said:

They weren't on the Fist when Sam killed the White Walker either and it killed Paul.

Yes but even then it was Small Paul that attacked the WW first.

Anyways regarding the scene I think people are putting too much of a tought in it, I mean, that White Walker was clearly leading the attack, it stopped there, observing the Fist, then realized Sam was there, looked at him, and Sam cowered in fear and started crying, and the WW must have realized he was not a threat, so it just urged the army forward, and that's the last we saw of it, the army going forward. Who knows if it's not it's intention to attack Sam after he sent the Wights forward or something like that? Plus I'm of the opinion that there is more to the Others than just "kill everything that moves" so maybe there is a rational reason why it didn't react "OMG a human kill it!" when it spotted Sam. People are reaally just overreacting and trigger-happy with the show.

[BlueHighwind]

They ran out of budgetz.

[Iszlai Ádám]

A sollution i may accept next season: the wight army walks toward the Fist, the first WW stands still at the rock, watching the army's march, and when the last of them had moved along, jumps off his dead-horse and approaches Sam to finish him off, but then Sam defies the WW, jumps up with the obsidian and stabs the Other to death, then escapes and cathes on with the fleeing watchers on the way to crasters / at crasters house.

[Silent Assassin]

Clariana, on 05 June 2012 - 08:57 AM, said:

Nope, it was because the lead wight or WW is none other than Benjen Stark... Well that's my theory...

I don't think that be Benjen, if you were right Benjen will be a

wights and not a WW

[FrozenFire3]

The white walkers are a different and separate species so I don't think he could have recognized Sam or spared him because he knew him. That's quite impossible. Clearly white walkers are different from the books. I guess the writers were only trying to increase suspense etc. The result was a piece of bad writing and many questions (which will probably remain unanswered).

[Iszlai Ádám]

Lord Angel, on 05 June 2012 - 12:57 PM, said:

I don't think that be Benjen, if you were right Benjen will be a

wights and not a WW

Of course the WW wasn't Benjen, Benjen didn't know Sam, but even if he did why would whitewalker-benjen give Sam mercy but attack the other people of Nights Watch?