85 replies to this topic

[Eirikr]

If I was a white walker with any kind of intellectual capacity, I'd want to let a few survivors escape south once in a while to spread tales of terror. Craster's infants can't serve that purpose because they can't speak.

If my very existence can break the morale of my enemies, I need them to believe that I exist.

Edited by Eirikr, 07 June 2012 - 09:42 AM.

[Andrés Garcia]

The scene ends before we see them leave Sam alone, so why are we assuming they leave him alone?

Watch the scene again closely. The camera travels back as it reveals a crowd of Others slowly moving forwards, but the White Walker who actually found Sam isn't moving; he's standing still right next to the rock that Sam was hiding behind. I'm not saying the writers didn't screw up, but there's no reason to think they did quite yet. Next season we might find out that the White Walker did approach Sam and that he then slayed it with his dragon glass dagger, becoming Sam the Slayer.

How does he escape the rest of them? I don't know, let's wait and see. That's why they call it a cliffhanger.

[7V3N]

Andrés Garcia, on 07 June 2012 - 09:49 AM, said:

The scene ends before we see them leave Sam alone, so why are we assuming they leave him alone?

Watch the scene again closely. The camera travels back as it reveals a crowd of Others slowly moving forwards, but the White Walker who actually found Sam isn't moving; he's standing still right next to the rock that Sam was hiding behind. I'm not saying the writers didn't screw up, but there's no reason to think they did quite yet. Next season we might find out that the White Walker did approach Sam and that he then slayed it with his dragon glass dagger, becoming Sam the Slayer.

How does he escape the rest of them? I don't know, let's wait and see. That's why they call it a cliffhanger.

The Other is just "shouting" in the typical zombie shout (sounds like LOTR nazgul). I got from it that he was doing some sort of war cry. I guess they didn't want to make the voices sounds like cracking ice.
Here is the image of it: [1]

[JayDubya]

I was annoyed that they put Sam there - they should have put some random guy who gets killed at the beginning of book 3.

[Andrés Garcia]

The Shadow Fox, on 07 June 2012 - 09:53 AM, said:

The Other is just "shouting" in the typical zombie shout (sounds like LOTR nazgul). I got from it that he was doing some sort of war cry. I guess they didn't want to make the voices sounds like cracking ice.
Here is the image of it: [1]

I don't see anything here that contradicts what I said. Yes, the White Walker was shouting.

[7V3N]

Andrés Garcia, on 07 June 2012 - 10:02 AM, said:

I don't see anything here that contradicts what I said. Yes, the White Walker was shouting.

Well you said he was just standing there, rather than doing something. It seems to me that the war cry was a sort of "let's go!" to the other/wight army. Like, he saw Sam, made the decision to ignore him, then initiated the attack. I am not debating your conclusion, just your premise.

JayDubya, on 07 June 2012 - 09:57 AM, said:

I was annoyed that they put Sam there - they should have put some random guy who gets killed at the beginning of book 3.

Chett, the steward. I think a NW desertion conspiracy, along with the planned murders of major officers and an enjoyed character Sam Tarly, would have done well for the show.

Edited by The Shadow Fox, 07 June 2012 - 10:52 AM.

[daimonionen]

jaqenhghar, on 06 June 2012 - 07:18 AM, said:

No, it is clear from the books that Others kill everything living. Even animals.

They are merciless. Craster is paying for his life with lives of his sons. As others are not yet ready to begin the invasion and are generally far away from Casters home.
But that will only last untill they get their numbers and strength up. Which just happened.

If anything Crasters case points in opposite direction of "they sometimes just let people go".

They dont.

Stop trying to find week excuses for this horrible show. Its very transparent.

As we all know, D&D change things from the books, so saying "no, the books says..." is useless.

We don't know what they do to Crasters' boys, do we? Why would you say that?

[heathergalaxy]

To me it's like the WW saw Sam and was like "Oh yeah, we got them. Charge!" We don't see anything attacking Sam now, but that WW will attack Sam first thing next season and Sam will kill the WW with the dragonglass. I don't think for a minute that Sam is being let go by the WW, instead D&D were stopping at that moment to show us how large the horde is. Honestly if it's hard to retreat from the fist, then it makes sense that someone as slow as Sam wouldn't be at the fist.

I agree that they won't show (either much or any of) the fighting for budgetary reasons, most likely just showing us the few of the NW who escape.

[Gaius Martell]

My biggest problem is that they are so ugly.  I don't believe in the Night's King now.

[Hasfast]

Tales of the Long Night say that human women would even lay with White Walkers for horrible dark rituals of some kind (Most probably, breeding abominations) in order to protect themselves. It could all be just a myth, but then they are widely considered to be myths themselves, and yet we know they exist, so everything told about them in legends could also be true.

There is no reason to think that they kill everything that draws breath. I think the Others must be at least as intelligent as human beings. They have a language of their own, and they seem to have a purpose, personified it would seem, by a deity of Winter (Recall Bran's dream in AGoT about The Heart of Winter). As far as we know, they would probably rather strike fear in living beings than killing them outright. The White Walker looked Sam right in the eye until he flinched and started crying... I believe these beings are bent in domination, not mindless destruction, and well... it takes a much crueller presence of spirit to subdue a person through fear than just killing them with a slash of the sword.

Added to all of this, yes... Budget must indeed be an issue. D.R.

[The Anti-Targ]

Andrés Garcia, on 07 June 2012 - 09:49 AM, said:

The scene ends before we see them leave Sam alone, so why are we assuming they leave him alone? Watch the scene again closely.

Dang, I was gonna reply to this with book spoilers, but I see this is a TV spoilers only thread.

Exits stage left

[Andrés Garcia]

The Anti-Targ, on 07 June 2012 - 11:42 PM, said:

Dang, I was gonna reply to this with book spoilers, but I see this is a TV spoilers only thread.

Exits stage left

I've read the books. I know what happens. Read my post again, I didn't write "The scene ends before we see them leave Sam alone, so why are we assuming they don't kill him?"

[4rcane]

The White Walker on the horse haven't seen Sam yet. If you look at the scene closely, his horse is too far in front of the rock to have seen Sam behind it. The White Walker that was looking straight at the camera, was actually looking at the scenery behind  Sam, not at him

Edited by 4rcane, 08 June 2012 - 05:08 AM.

[7V3N]

4rcane, on 08 June 2012 - 05:07 AM, said:

The White Walker on the horse haven't seen Sam yet. If you look at the scene closely, his horse is too far in front of the rock to have seen Sam behind it. The White Walker that was looking straight at the camera, was actually looking at the scenery behind  Sam, not at him

I noticed that as well. But I think it was a mess-up. Because Sam's reaction was directly after the Other looked at the camera. Rewatch the scene here (start at 2:30). It is clear that Sam and the Other make eye contact. The zoom-out must have been an error.

Edited by The Shadow Fox, 08 June 2012 - 10:45 AM.

[Gallant]

The Shadow Fox, on 08 June 2012 - 10:45 AM, said:

I noticed that as well. But I think it was a mess-up. Because Sam's reaction was directly after the Other looked at the camera. Rewatch the scene here (start at 2:30). It is clear that Sam and the Other make eye contact. The zoom-out must have been an error.

It looked indeed like they make eye contact.Book spoilers:

Spoiler

They might show us the wights running to the fist of the first men, then the other trying to kill sam, followed by sam killing the other and joining the refugees. Or joining up at Craster's.

[CrypticWeirwood]

Sam is carrying obsidian.  Maybe it’s like garlic is to vampires: it wards off the Others.

Yes, I’m kidding.

[CrypticWeirwood]

jaqenhghar, on 06 June 2012 - 07:18 AM, said:

No, it is clear from the books <SNIP>

Good thing this isn’t the Holy Book then.  

It’s the show.

They are different things.  

They have to be.

Get over it.

[Ugly Little Girl]

jaqenhghar, on 09 June 2012 - 12:00 PM, said:

{snip}
Where the others are clearly killing everything, even animals and every human they can?
as far as we have seen.
{snip}

{snip}
While they leave Craster live for a little
{snip}

They appear to kill every human they can - apart from Craster, and his wives, and his animals, and the ranger from episode one.

[Ugly Little Girl]

jaqenhghar, on 09 June 2012 - 12:17 PM, said:

What, what?

what ranger? from the episode?

I am talking about what the original material the show is so badly adapting is saying about them - including Old nans stories and legends.
the ranger that got away in the books did so because he wasnt even close to the two that got killed. he stayed with the horses and took off at first sign something bad was coming - which he felt before and argued about it.

Craster is paying for his life with lives of his sons.

Enough with that.
Stop inventing ridiculus excuses that dont hold water.

And why did you snip the post? it wasnt big at all... trying to distort things a BIT are we?

I wasn't trying to distort anything, just point out the lack of logical integrity in your own argument.

If you remember from the books, the ranger that Ned beheads escapes them Others, the same as the first episode. So no, they don't kill everything. Why they don't is up for debate though.

Edited by Ugly Little Girl, 09 June 2012 - 12:42 PM.

[Hasfast]

Jaqen, first, if you think that the adaptation is a bad one, this is not the thread or forum for you. Go to the discussions about the books if you want to talk about what the books say.

With that established, second, it's the show we're discussing here, so it's the events in the show that take precedence, with what's written in the novels acting solely as references. However Will escaped the Others in the book, he had one right in front of him in the show, and he escaped. Since we know that he was positively disrupted by fear at the time, we have to assume that the White Walker let him go.

Also, it has been said before that White Walkers are superior swordsmen and capable of moving with extreme silence and swiftness. I'm sure that a few of them are a force to be seriously reckoned with, yet the Wildlings survive night by night, and since both in the book and the show, it has been promoted that they can kill entire camps, they certainly do not attack at random, and we have no proof that they will kill everything that moves. In fact, the series has twice demonstrated that they won't simply kill whatever is alive, because the White Walker did see Sam, and did leave him be. D.R.