[TV Spoilers] I don´t understand what happened in Quarth

[Khal-a-bunga]

I must not have had the same problem with the Qarth storyline as many here did, because I found it to be much more satisfying than her stay there in the novels.

In the Red Waste the audience sees that Dany isn't suddenly going from powerless to all-powerful simply by the virtue of having dragons at her disposal. Her people are dying and suffering, she loses Silver, and she has only Jorah to truly rely on and carry her through.

When she comes to the gates of Qarth and meets with the Thirteen she is denied entry because she's unwilling to use her dragons (her children, as Dany sees it) as a bargaining chip. Xaro then invokes "sumai" to grant her and her Dothraki followers access into the city, despite the fact that the other members of the Thirteen don't feel the same.

Next we see her with Irri (who firmly establishes that Dany is a khaleesi and not a princess) and Doreah in her chambers. The foreshadowing of "dracarys" also happens in this scene, as well as the set-up for Doreah's betrayal ("He loves you."; "Men like to talk about other men... When they're happy.")

At the party thrown in Dany's honor, Pyat Pree mentions that Dany should come to the House of the Undying. Jorah then meets Quaithe who warns him of the dangers that Dany faces in the city as a result of her being the mother of dragons, and Xaro begins to sow seeds of discontent between Dany and Jorah after discounting Pyat Pree as a sham.

This is also where the vault is introduced, and Xaro's insistence that "power resides where men believe it resides" begins. Xaro, somewhat like Dany, came to this city with nothing and has established himself through sheer force of will. At the gates of Qarth, and during her meeting with the Spice King, Dany vows to take what is rightfully her own through virtue of her family history and her dragons. She says these things with conviction, but also with no true understanding of what it means to wield such power.

Just as the Spice King and the rest of the Thirteen doubted Pyat Pree and Xaro (due to his upbringing), Xaro and Pree doubt Dany. The difference being, unlike Xaro's empty vault, Dany does have a true power hidden inside of her. That Pree monologues about her dragons strengthening his power, then tells her that her own power makes the dragons (ergo, the source of his and the other Warlock's powers) stronger is ultimately his own undoing, which seems less anti-climactic to me and more intentionally ironic.

When all is said and done, Dany shows her true strength by ignoring the false visions of power shown to her in the House of the Undying (the throne representing her future and Drogo representing what was) and embracing her role as a mother of dragons. Her remaining Dothraki loot Xaro's own "baubles and trinkets" (mirroring the scene where she forbid Kavarro from doing so) to purchase a small ship and go on to the next leg of their journey.

Doreah and Xaro are locked in his empty vault, and the lesson that Dany learns isn't 'Don't trust rich people that want to marry you.', but rather that real power can and does exist inside of her if she can believe in herself and those around her whom she trusts.

There are plenty of other things that tie this all together, and I barely touched upon how Dany's relationship with Jorah is challenged (which will give further weight to the relationship between the two in the future). My point is that this storyline isn't something that was thrown together haphazardly. Points about the common people of Qarth have no real relevance because this isn't a story about that city but about Dany's journey. Why is it so hard to simply assume that Qarth is feeling the effects of what has happened? And Dany not being able to get to Xaro because of his guards? Uh, dragons... Do you think anyone would stand in her way? Would you?

Not everything needs to be spelled out explicitly, and as it pertains to Dany's growth as a character I feel that the Qarth storyline succeeded admirably. I'm not interjecting anything from the books into this assessment, I'm simply using what was presented in the show. I have no problems with people disliking the execution of these things, but to say that the whole plot was a mess of contradictions and inconsistencies is patently false.

[Thunderfist]

its not the theft of the dragons that presents the problem. its the executing of political rivals and self-proclaiming of kingship political story that is tacked on without exploring. they could have come up with a dragon stealing plot that worked. they didnt

Exactly.

Imagine a UN meeting where 2-3 countries kill the representatives of every other country, wouldn´t there be repercussions?

Where is the Spice Prince and the Copper Prince, aren´t they a bit pissed that XXD and Pyat killed their dads?

[protar]

One of the main problems with Dany's storyline is that she takes nothing away from it, so it's completely tangenital to the story. In the books the three fires prophecy is a massive part of her development and she obsesses over it constantly. Depending on your interpretation it sets her off onto the road of Targaryen madness. Instead of this we get the scene with Drogo, which while it was enjoyable to watch, served no purpose.

[Thunderfist]

One of the main problems with Dany's storyline is that she takes nothing away from it, so it's completely tangenital to the story. In the books the three fires prophecy is a massive part of her development and she obsesses over it constantly. Depending on your interpretation it sets her off onto the road of Targaryen madness. Instead of this we get the scene with Drogo, which while it was enjoyable to watch, served no purpose.

Tbh I prefer Drogo when he´s ripping out tongues or screaming about war and conquest :P

[Ran]

GoodGuyA,

Yes, but you were also calling out the show before we even got to Qarth.

Sure. Because I knew they were going to "action" it up. And then the action? The killing of the Thirteen was so uncompelling that no one really cares about it. That was their mistake. I saw it coming, and it was proved out.

I'm not so bothered by the theft of the dragons. I mean, I pointed out the problems from an adaptation point of view, but I could go with it if it presented a truly compelling narrative. I didn't feel it did, because I knew that it was a rather easy ploy to juice up the story.

[gogorath]

Agreed completely. Complaints about this are only for complaining's sake.

OK, but what betrayal/bad decision did Doreah commit? She was told to sleep around and she did. There is nothing to suggest (that I saw anyway) to indicate that she had anything to do with the dragon theft.

Except, you know, she's sleeping with the man who stole her dragons. And she never returned to even talk to Dany after the Dragons were stolen. And she acted immediately guilty when Dany arrived. And the gut she's sleeping with isn't someone Dany needed intel from and that bedchamber is in the same place where the dragons were stolen from and where Dany was staying, yet Doreah just disappeared? Long nap in XXDs bed?

[boojam]

2) Why do people see Doreah's punishment as "too harsh"? Yes, Dany asked Doreah to "fuck around" in order to acquire allies, but she never told her to steal her dragons or sleep with her enemies. Doreah was a traitor (to the crown, since Dany believes herself to be the rightful Queen of Westeros, as well as Khaleesi). Within the medieval setting, punishing treason with death is perfectly fitting. In fact, even nowadays, government treason (or whatever it is called) is punishable by death or a very long jail sentence.

It's this part that bothers me about Doreah. After all she and Dany have been through and that she had shown no signs of being unfaithful.... that she would become turn cloak.... I don't buy ...

Seems to me D and D wanted to make 'contract' space, I don't like that.

[teemo]

I wasn't that bothered by the stealing of dragons thing either, because it was a way to dragggggg out her story over several episodes and it also cut back on budget (not having to show the dragons and having people say WTF are they dragons).

And so what if Doreah is sleeping with the enemy? She's a whore. Was she really involved in the stealing of the dragons? It would have been nice if that was made a little more clear. IMO, Dany wouldn't have killed in her the books. Come on. She didn't even kill Jorah, who was fucking SPYING ON HER AND GIVING INFORMATION TO HER ENEMIES.

[Im no Ser]

Except, you know, she's sleeping with the man who stole her dragons.

She's been told to sleep around for intelligence.

And she never returned to even talk to Dany after the Dragons were stolen.

Returned from where? They were in the same house. She never left.

And she acted immediately guilty when Dany arrived.

No doubt. No one in-universe (including Doreah) seem to think Dany's response is unreasonable. But just because everyone in the scene acts like it makes sense doesn't mean that it actually does. It almost felt like there was another scene explaining her betrayal that was left on the cutting room floor.

And the gut she's sleeping with isn't someone Dany needed intel from

As it happens, since he's the one that stole them, he's exactly who she needs intel about.

and that bedchamber is in the same place where the dragons were stolen from and where Dany was staying, yet Doreah just disappeared? Long nap in XXDs bed?

But did she disappear? Was there something that established that Doreah was in the wind and I missed it? AFAIK there was nothing to suggest that she wasn't exactly where she was supposed to be the whole time.

[Mulled Wino]

Qarth went downhill fast. It seems like an afterthought. Visually qarth was great. Thats about it.

[Horus Ex Machina]

Maybe way off in the future when Dany is occupying Meereen or something we'll hear one of her advisors/emissaries say something along the lines of "when you left Qarth, the place descended into civil war."

Also, I think Xaro and Doreah would suffocate before they starved to death. May as well have one more roll in the, uh, vault. Roxanne McKee is pretty hot...

It wouldn't be that bad though, since the delirium would have set in long before that. Probably midway through their first romp due to all of the oxygen they'd be using up.

Qarth went downhill fast. It seems like an afterthought. Visually qarth was great. Thats about it.

Qarth was always a boring storyline to me. Dany's story started becoming enjoyable again for me in book 3. But, unlike alot of other things they did this season, the changes they made to this storyline were not for the better.

[SynthFG]

Qarth went downhill fast. It seems like an afterthought. Visually qarth was great. Thats about it.

Pretty much like in the books then

Danny's storyline for book 2 makes interesting reading but wouldn't make good tv because nothing happens until the end

She wonders around in the waste watching her people die,

finds a deserted city and sends out scouts

gets invited to Quath

visits the market

gets marriage proposals and lots of gifts

gets rejected by the 13

visits HotU

visits the harbour

meets belwas and arristan

[Ferrous]

I would not be surprised if the safe had more than one entrance.

[Istakhr]

Pretty much like in the books then

Danny's storyline for book 2 makes interesting reading but wouldn't make good tv because nothing happens until the end

She wonders around in the waste watching her people die,

finds a deserted city and sends out scouts

gets invited to Quath

visits the market

gets marriage proposals and lots of gifts

gets rejected by the 13

visits HotU

visits the harbour

meets belwas and arristan

In the books there was no political assassinations without repercussions. No kings without guards. No Dany screaming Fire and Blood for most of the books. No warlock casting duplicate or whatever spells. No house of the undying with one warlock and no undying!

The story in the book was a fairly dull story with a very interesting and important climax, the one in TV was a ridiculous story fit for Dungeons and Dragons not GOT.

[kephv]

I don't understand what happened with Qarth. Instead of the plot we got in the books they replaced it with overdramatized killings and Ducksauce, coupled with completely illogical set pieces that ask you to leave your brain at the door. Terrible.

Visually qarth was great. Thats about it.

I thought it looked cheap and gaudy.

[Castel]

2) Why do people see Doreah's punishment as "too harsh"? Yes, Dany asked Doreah to "fuck around" in order to acquire allies, but she never told her to steal her dragons or sleep with her enemies. Doreah was a traitor (to the crown, since Dany believes herself to be the rightful Queen of Westeros, as well as Khaleesi). Within the medieval setting, punishing treason with death is perfectly fitting. In fact, even nowadays, government treason (or whatever it is called) is punishable by death or a very long jail sentence.

Keep a couple of things in mind. We don't know the extent of Doreah's involvement, Dany, acting like her book counterpart, never asks. It's quite possible that Doreah was forced to leave the dragons and then forced into Xaro's bed. Think about it:" think about Pyat and what he can do. Do you think that Doreah can stand against him? Certain death faced her and Dany for all she knew. Doreah was a slave, she was shoehorned into Dany's service because she had no choice, I doubt that she'd be happy facing warlocks.

And what does she get? Not a trial or anything, one sentence and then she's thrown into a room with a man much larger than her. If the air doesn't run out what happens when Xaro gets hungry? Seriously? It was terribly cruel. It had little to do with justice and more to do with revenge, compare it with the traditional punishment for treason in Westeros, a swift, clean head chop.

[Istakhr]

Keep a couple of things in mind. We don't know the extent of Doreah's involvement, Dany, acting like her book counterpart, never asks. It's quite possible that Doreah was forced to leave the dragons and then forced into Xaro's bed. Think about it:" think about Pyat and what he can do. Do you think that Doreah can stand against him? Certain death faced her and Dany for all she knew. Doreah was a slave, she was shoehorned into Dany's service because she had no choice, I doubt that she'd be happy facing warlocks.

And what does she get? Not a trial or anything, one sentence and then she's thrown into a room with a man much larger than her. If the air doesn't run out what happens when Xaro gets hungry? Seriously? It was terribly cruel. It had little to do with justice and more to do with revenge, compare it with the traditional punishment for treason in Westeros, a swift, clean head chop.

But is she acting like her book counter part? Remember she didn't kill Jorah and his betrayal of her seemed worse to me.

[Castel]

But is she acting like her book counter part? Remember she didn't kill Jorah and his betrayal of her seemed worse to me.

She killed 163 men she was given without verifying who they were. She basically just crucified them for "justice" and left it at that.

[Istakhr]

She killed 163 men she was given without verifying who they were. She basically just crucified them for "justice" and left it at that.

She didn't know those men. To her, those were faceless, nameless evil slavers. I think in the books she always shows too much empathy to people she know or even talk to or see for a little while and almost non to people she had already judged without knowing them.

[Prince of Dragonstone]

I'm assuming that someone from Qarth is going to send a hired sword to kill Dany and that "Arstan Whitebeard" is going to kill the would-be assassin. I really hope they introduce "Arstan" pretty early next season. He is one of the best parts of Dany's whole future storyline.