89 replies to this topic

[Thunderfist]

When XXD and Pyat killed the 11, did they also kill every single one of their family members, friends and close associates since the the killing doesn´t seem to have any consequenses at all in Quarth. One would expect that the 11 that were killed had great wealth and that at least some of them had armed forces at their disposal, so why is there no civil war, or any sort of armed conflict? XXD had no money and apparently no armed forces or guards at all, since Dany and her crew sacked his home with 10 people and 3 hamster-sized dragons. And Pyatt Pree was only one guy since there seems to be no other warlocks or any undying. Are we to assume that Pyatt Pree multiplied himself into about 10000 copies and killed every single person in Quarth that might have been a threat to his and XXD´s plans and that´s the reason why the killing of the 11 seems to have generated zero response from anyone?

[Ran]

They retained the insubstantial qualities of Qarth from the novel without realizing that the political business intruded with realism that the setting could not sustain without much context being added.

I have pretty much seen no one giving Xaro or Doreah much thought at all, except for some random person on a random forum who wondered if you'd be too terrified to have sex in that situation, or if you'd have sex with Doreah until you starved to death....

It was really, really completely pointless the way it ended. Presumably we'll start in Qarth in the new season and perhaps they'll actually give some contextual fallout from what happened. Though, really, you'd think the Qartheen would hail Dany as a liberator and would be happy to see her off with some gifts...

[Ser Dermett Corbray]

Maybe way off in the future when Dany is occupying Meereen or something we'll hear one of her advisors/emissaries say something along the lines of "when you left Qarth, the place descended into civil war."

Also, I think Xaro and Doreah would suffocate before they starved to death. May as well have one more roll in the, uh, vault. Roxanne McKee is pretty hot...

[eyeheartsansa]

I thought it was interesting how previously Dany had scolded her men for trying to steal from xxd.. and now she's just flat out embracing it.  In a way I think this is a way of showing Dany embracing her Dothraki side, especially after seeing Drogo in the Undying house.

I think the main thing we're supposed to get from the whole qarth debacle is that Dany is pretty much on her own and can't trust anyone at all.  I'll be surprised if we see much more of Qarth anytime soon.

[Reposado]

Ran, on 06 June 2012 - 06:47 AM, said:

It was really, really completely pointless the way it ended. Presumably we'll start in Qarth in the new season and perhaps they'll actually give some contextual fallout from what happened.

I feel like this is something they will gloss over. if they had thought out a deeper context to Qarth political doings, we would have seen them already.

[PatrickStormborn]

Ran, on 06 June 2012 - 06:47 AM, said:

I have pretty much seen no one giving Xaro or Doreah much thought at all, except for some random person on a random forum who wondered if you'd be too terrified to have sex in that situation, or if you'd have sex with Doreah until you starved to death....

I've actually seen a fair amount of discussion of Xaro and Doreah on tumblr, with quite a few people arguing that Daenerys was "too harsh".

[TheDarkOne]

If you view Xaro's vault as a metaphor for the time spent in Qarth, and for that matter Danny's story line this season, it makes perfect sense.

[protar]

Nonsense happened in Qarth.

Seriously the whole plot was a let down. I realise they had to expand on what happened in the books, but couldn't they have done something better. My personal idea was to expand a bit on Dany dealing with the merchants and getting rejected, so eventually she accepts Xaro's proposal. But then we get Doreah seducing Xaro (and getting him drunk) so he reveals the Qartheen wedding custom (was that even mentioned in the show?) and that he had been bribing the other merchants to refuse Dany. Once this comes out Dany would be decide to go to the HOTU as a last resort in E8 (Which seriously needed some substance.). Then in E10 we have the whole meeting Barristan stuff.

[dtones520]

eyeheartsansa, on 06 June 2012 - 07:02 AM, said:

I think the main thing we're supposed to get from the whole qarth debacle is that Dany is pretty much on her own and can't trust anyone at all.  I'll be surprised if we see much more of Qarth anytime soon.

Which is essentially what we were supposed to take out of book Qarth. The show just tried to make it more interesting for people to watch on t.v. Instead of Dany talking while her left boob is out and getting a bunch of prophecies no one understands, we got a lot of yelling and stolen dragons.

[Greywolf2375]

eyeheartsansa, on 06 June 2012 - 07:02 AM, said:

I think the main thing we're supposed to get from the whole qarth debacle is that Dany is pretty much on her own and can't trust anyone at all.  I'll be surprised if we see much more of Qarth anytime soon.

Agreed, I think - from a production standpoint - that this is one of the situations where we don't need a huge exposition at the beginning of next season but just one or two lines about it and it will close.  There are a few situations that have happened similar to that - the Jon/Quorin one being an example.  One line of dialogue clears up ambiguity - or a forgotten plotline as Qarth might turn out to be.

[Onion Smuggler]

Dany's storyline in Qarth has been very poorly handled IMO. Let's be fair, it's not a great part of ACOK, not much happens but there is enough materail there to make something interesting occur.

They botched the HoTU in my opinion. The farce that was Pyat Pree killing the 13 of Qarth and then being overwhelmed immediately by the dragons that he'd had for ages already. Xaro Xhoan Daxos and Doreah betraying Dany was a strange way to go too.

Overall I was disappointed with Dany's arc and I do agree with the OP that's it's not that clear what happened in Qarth.

[Reposado]

dtones520, on 06 June 2012 - 07:29 AM, said:

Which is essentially what we were supposed to take out of book Qarth. The show just tried to make it more interesting for people to watch on t.v. Instead of Dany talking while her left boob is out and getting a bunch of prophecies no one understands, we got a lot of yelling and stolen dragons.

except i didn't find what happened interesting to watch on tv. a similar plot could have been interesting, if they'd deepened it and fleshed it out. as it was eh, i'd have rather seen daeny's left boob

[eyeheartsansa]

Quote

Which is essentially what we were supposed to take out of book Qarth. The show just tried to make it more interesting for people to watch on t.v. Instead of Dany talking while her left boob is out and getting a bunch of prophecies no one understands, we got a lot of yelling and stolen dragons.

yes exactly.

On the whole, I thought Qarth was passable, not great.

Quote

They botched the HoTU in my opinion. The farce that was Pyat Pree killing the 13 of Qarth and then being overwhelmed immediately by the dragons that he'd had for ages already. Xaro Xhoan Daxos and Doreah betraying Dany was a strange way to go too.

I thought the Pyat Pree thing made sense because it shows that he didn't truly understand them or their connection to Dany.  Or that dragon fire can melt chains.  Whatever he was offering Dany or pretend to offer her... to rule Qarth with him as the mother of dragons.. whatever deep, mysterious warlock knowledge he seemed to have.. it was all as hollow as XXD's vault, and inconsequential next to Dany's command of her dragons.

Also, he didn't have the dragons for "ages."  maybe a couple of days, tops.

Xaro's betrayal of Dany ultimately amounted to the same thing as in the books; essentially he wanted to steal her dragons, but more indirectly, ie taking advantage of Dany's ignorance of Quartheen marriage law.

So I understand most of what they were trying to do with Qarth.. it wasn't terrible but it's arguably the weakest part of the show so far.

Doreah was a disappointment.  I will miss her

Edited by eyeheartsansa, 06 June 2012 - 08:30 AM.

[jons nissa]

eyeheartsansa, on 06 June 2012 - 07:02 AM, said:

I thought it was interesting how previously Dany had scolded her men for trying to steal from xxd.. and now she's just flat out embracing it.  In a way I think this is a way of showing Dany embracing her Dothraki side, especially after seeing Drogo in the Undying house.

i think this is exactly the point. iirc she scolds the dothraki who are taking things saying no, that's not what we do. she seemed to indeed be distancing herself from the dothraki but she seems to have embraced it wholeheartedly.

[Frog One]

The show does not concern itself with politics outside Westeros, so don't expect Dany's world to ever be detailed.

[The Third Reed]

Lanza Rota, on 06 June 2012 - 08:03 AM, said:

except i didn't find what happened interesting to watch on tv. a similar plot could have been interesting, if they'd deepened it and fleshed it out. as it was eh, i'd have rather seen daeny's left boob

Qarth was horribly botched and was full of chasm sized plotholes.

Edited by The Third Reed, 12 May 2013 - 06:37 AM.

[Will Segatto]

The Third Reed, on 06 June 2012 - 09:17 AM, said:

I'd never complain about seeing Dany's left boob, or her right one for that matter.

In what minute/second that happened?

[Will Segatto]

I have a doubt.... Weren't the Dothraki people all dead? How come she has some many people together with her when trapping/stealing from XXD?

[Ran]

The baffling thing to me is that...

Up to the very end of episode 6, it's basically the story in the novel.

Then the dragon theft. The the murder of the Thirteen. Than a tiny scene in 8. Then this as a finale.

So basically, all the change really covers three "new" scenes -- dragon theft, murder of the Thirteen, hiding out in an abandoned palace.


Were those changes so cool? No, not really.

Were I them, I would have structured it with an ep seven scene showing Xaro increasingly agitated and annoyed with Dany, and her turning to Pyat Pree. Episode 8, House of the Undying. Episode 10, Dany's last chapter -- parting ways with Xaro, assassination attempt, Arstan (with or without Belwas), departure for some place new.

It just seems much, much better to me because the theft-King Xaro narrative was so lacking in urgency.

ETA: The Dothraki were not all dead. Four Dothraki who had been left there as guards, IIRC, were shown dead, but she had 20-30 people left in the band when she reached Qarth.

Edited by Ran, 06 June 2012 - 09:40 AM.

[Lord Varys]

Even the dialogue is mostly recycled stuff. How often does the Summer Islander guy refer to the fact that he is a self-made man? That was really pathetic.

By the way - did the House of the Undying or the time in Qarth significantly change Dany's character? As in the book, she does not have any more assets in the end than she had in beginning (in fact she has somewhat less, since she has lost Doreah and Irri in Qarth), nor did she learn anything of value or importance there.

That anyone wants to use her or steal her dragons Jorah did already tell her in the first episode of this season. More importantly, she already learned to trust anyone back in season 1 when she dealt with Mirri Maz Duur.

In the book, the House of the Undying gives her at least knowledge and a sense of self-assurance about her place in the world. She may not understand all those prophecies and visions, but she knows that they were all connected to her fate. The show completely botched this. They even contradicted themselves: First Dany refers angrily to her own magic when trying to convince Jorah that she could challenge the Undying of Qarth, but then she does nothing remotely magical when confronted by Pyat Pree. 'Dracarys' is not a magic word, and Pyat Pree burned to death only because he was too stupid to step out of the dragon's reach not because of Dany's inherent 'magic'.

And honestly, the stupid idea of chaining Dany for all eternity in an empty tower chamber is completely ridiculous. Yes, there is a connection between magic and dragons, but there is no connection between Dany's life expectancy and the life expectancy of the dragons. The idea that the Undying would fear the inherent magic of the dragons, but try feed of the life-force/special fate/potential of Dany's future was way more powerful than 'You will be chained here for all eternity'.

The conclusion at the end of the season in the series is: Stealing from your host and behaving like a ragged band of savages is good, after all. That's not character development. That's just stupid.