Caliban's War - spoiler thread

[WrathOfTinyKittens]

I really enjoyed it.

I was engrossed by the novel and thought it did a suitable job of elevating the danger level - you can really feel the fear of the protomolocule in the background (or foreground depending on scene).

Also, a small thing, but I appreciated the symmetry of the UN sailor hiding in the equipment locker as a throwback to Julie's original confinement.

[Tormund Ukrainesbane]

I'm splitting my time between this book and the Goodkind review. Thanks Daniel and Ty for keeping me sane and semi-sober.

[White Walker Texas Ranger]

I liked that this book delved a bit more into society on Earth and Mars. I was wondering, though, how the tax on children affects people who don't work and live on Basic. Don't they not have any money in the first place?

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

I really enjoyed this book. The unexpected arrival at the final moments is an interesting lead in to the next installment. That said I think a prominant character should not have made it into the next installment.

[RedEyedGhost]

Really good book. It didn't have the sense of urgency that Leviathan Wakes had, but I think it was better for it. The slow build into the frantic final half was really enjoyable. Bobbie was just fantastic, and I really enjoyed her interactions with Avasararla. The scene with Holden, Avasarala, and Mao was great.

If the proto-molecule can instantly communicate without regard for distance, does that mean it's creator race now knows what's going on? Will they be a focus in the second series?

I really enjoyed this book. The unexpected arrival at the final moments is an interesting lead in to the next installment

.

I agree with PaulineMRoss; I was definitely expecting Miller to return.

That said I think a prominant character should not have made it into the next installment.

I was kind of shocked that one of the POV characters didn't die, but I'm also not expecting Prax to make it into the next book. His story is complete, imo.

Also, I found it pretty amazing that Daniel and Ty wrote POV characters that are at the opposite ends of the story. Bobbie ties in with Avasarala and Holden ties in with Prax; yet, Daniel wrote Ava and Prax and Ty wrote Holden and Bobbie. This speaks to their talent as authors and to the level of teamwork and planning that went into the novel.

Here's an interesting post talking about their process.

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

Bobbie is a great character. Really hope ahe's in the next book.

[WrathOfTinyKittens]

I loved Bobbie but I didn't expect her to survive. I figured she'd die fighting the monster to atone for the death of her platoon.

I do have a few minor issues with that scene, though. For one thing, her arm gun only holds 2000 rounds, but fires fast enough that it shoots in 50-round bursts? That's not enough ammunition for any kind of battle with regular soldiers, so honestly I find it a bit implausible, especially since it appears to be the suit's only weapon. Second, I'm not sure how she survived. The final moments of the scene show her doing an emergency jet out of her suit in an extremely low-g, low air-pressure, and hostile environment - we had already been told that Amos and Prax's combat suits didn't have the shielding to let them survive more than a few minutes I radiation, but she can literally fly in just her undersuit for a few and be perfectly fine? I'm not saying she should have died instantly but that kind of radiation should have seriously messed her up.

[Maltaran]

It was only for a few seconds, IIRC - Amos and Prax had already got everything set up to shut the airlock and get it pressurised.

[red snow]

I enjoyed it. Not quite as much as the first book but I think that's because I enjoyed discovering the set up of the world. The protomolecule still bugs me but it I liked how it was being used as a bioweapon. I think i missed Miller a lot and while I thought he'd return as some protomolecule avatar was glad of the last scene, I found Prax quite disappointing although he did give us a lot more insight into Amos. Avasarala was great and I had her pegged as Daniel's mainly beacuse he's written elderly characters who are powerful before (the first "long price book") although Avasarala has a a far fouler mouth on her. I have to admit I didn't know who wrote Prax and Bobbie though - my guess was Bobbie = Daniel and Prax = Ty but that was solely based on the thought they were sharing segments of story. I guess it makes as much sense for each author to handle their own wing of the story though and probably explains how Amos' characterisation flowed so well between Holden and Bobbie.

[Jussi]

Here is the first synopsis of book three, Abaddon's Gate:

For generations, the solar system - Mars, the Moon, the Asteroid Belt - was humanity's great frontier. Until now. The alien artefact working through its program under the clouds of Venus has emerged to build a massive structure outside the orbit of Uranus: a gate that leads into a starless dark.

Jim Holden and the crew of the Rocinante are part of a vast flotilla of scientific and military ships going out to examine the artefact. But behind the scenes, a complex plot is unfolding, with the destruction of Holden at its core. As the emissaries of the human race try to find whether the gate is an opportunity or a threat, the greatest danger is the one they brought with them.

http://www.littlebrown.co.uk/Title/9781841499925

[red snow]

Here is the first synopsis of book three, Abaddon's Gate:

For generations, the solar system - Mars, the Moon, the Asteroid Belt - was humanity's great frontier. Until now. The alien artefact working through its program under the clouds of Venus has emerged to build a massive structure outside the orbit of Uranus: a gate that leads into a starless dark.

Jim Holden and the crew of the Rocinante are part of a vast flotilla of scientific and military ships going out to examine the artefact. But behind the scenes, a complex plot is unfolding, with the destruction of Holden at its core. As the emissaries of the human race try to find whether the gate is an opportunity or a threat, the greatest danger is the one they brought with them.

http://www.littlebro...e/9781841499925

That is really opening up the storyline. Although it may take it even more away from what makes the series work for me. I'll give it a go though as it should be different from the first two parts at least. Hopefully we'll get some of the other POVs back too.

[Jussi]

GRRM thinks that Caliban's War should be nominated for Hugo Award:

Well, in 2012 the second volume of the Expanse series, CALIBAN'S WAR, was published. And far from being a victim of sophomore slump, that bastard Jimmy Corey seems to have done it again. CALIBAN'S WAR is even better than LEVIATHAN WAKES. It's old-fashioned space opera, the kind of SF that I cut my teeth on, a real page-turner set in a vividly imagined solar system, squarely in the tradition of Heinlein and Asimov and Rocky Jones, Space Ranger (lacking only Pinto Vortando), superlatively written. Books like this were what made me an SF fan to begin with. CALIBAN'S WAR was the best pure SF I read in 2012, and I will be nominating it for the Hugo.

http://grrm.livejour...com/315187.html

[Spring Bass]

I liked that this book delved a bit more into society on Earth and Mars. I was wondering, though, how the tax on children affects people who don't work and live on Basic. Don't they not have any money in the first place?

They probably just get double-taxed, sort of like getting an income stipend and having to them pay sales tax at the store.

It was an interesting idea, and I'm glad that Abraham just said outright why Earth is so incredibly populated by the time of the setting (even if I disagree about the relation between work and having kids).

[red snow]

They probably just get double-taxed, sort of like getting an income stipend and having to them pay sales tax at the store.

It was an interesting idea, and I'm glad that Abraham just said outright why Earth is so incredibly populated by the time of the setting (even if I disagree about the relation between work and having kids).

I thought if you're going down the road of over-population then a way of making the system work would be that only those who can afford a child can have one. Have an amazing benefit system but all those who take it are infertile while on it. It would be one of the few incentives to actually work, if people were financially taken care of. It would have also provided a good incentive for people to move to the colonies. I've worked with a few first generation UK nationals whose chinese parents came to work over here for better pay and the freedom to have as many kids as they liked,

I'm pretty sure something like that is happening in this series but has been outright stated yet. Holden has "several" parents and while it's supposed to be for the land they share I'm pretty sure there must also be a reason why they only had one child. I guess birth control is even better in the future though as none of the space-faring characters seem to have children littered all over the solar system. The other earth option though is that pollution, or food supply has resulted in high infertility and the human race has been naturally inhibited - the only way I think the earth's population will ever be reduced in a non-controversial way. I do recall in the last book that one of the moons was where people from the belt went to have children, so maybe all the belters are on biirth control or have their eggs and sperm frozen as their regular ones are too damaged by cosmic radiation?

Won't be long to the next book now. Definitely looking forward to it. So far with this series and Abraham's "blood and coin" they are tied for me in terms of this series won with book 1 and dagger and coming won with book 2.

[Werthead]

GRRM thinks that Caliban's War should be nominated for Hugo Award:

http://grrm.livejour...com/315187.html

I enjoyed the book, but cannot agree with this. I felt it was a real step down from Leviathan Wakes (which was worthy of the nomination). I can fully get behind the reccomendation of The King's Blood, though, as that was a really good novel and a big step up from the first one. Really looking forwards to the third book.

[red snow]

I enjoyed the book, but cannot agree with this. I felt it was a real step down from Leviathan Wakes (which was worthy of the nomination). I can fully get behind the reccomendation of The King's Blood, though, as that was a really good novel and a big step up from the first one. Really looking forwards to the third book.

Pretty much agree although I don't think it was a step down but maybe just more of the same and some of the new POVs weren't as good eg the scientist. I still found it entertaining and the next book seems to be stepping things up.

The King's blood was my favourite of last year though and I can't wait to see how the next installment of that series goes.

[Spring Bass]

I thought if you're going down the road of over-population then a way of making the system work would be that only those who can afford a child can have one. Have an amazing benefit system but all those who take it are infertile while on it. It would be one of the few incentives to actually work, if people were financially taken care of. It would have also provided a good incentive for people to move to the colonies. I've worked with a few first generation UK nationals whose chinese parents came to work over here for better pay and the freedom to have as many kids as they liked,

"Basic" doesn't really seem amazing in the book, so you would still get a ton of people working so they can have more money than that. I think it's mentioned that half of Earth's population works, while about half is on Basic. But I agree that it would be a potent incentive, assuming people in the setting want to have more than one or two kids anyways.

As for the book, I loved it. My favorite parts of Leviathan Wakes were the politics and human conflict, and Caliban's War had more of that. I still like the former more, but they were both good.

[red snow]

"Basic" doesn't really seem amazing in the book, so you would still get a ton of people working so they can have more money than that. I think it's mentioned that half of Earth's population works, while about half is on Basic. But I agree that it would be a potent incentive, assuming people in the setting want to have more than one or two kids anyways.

As for the book, I loved it. My favorite parts of Leviathan Wakes were the politics and human conflict, and Caliban's War had more of that. I still like the former more, but they were both good.

Yeah, when you have that many people you probably have to embrace the fact there aren't enough jobs for everyone. Especially as the future is probably even more automated, factories, etc probably only require a manager and some technicians for breakdowns. I did like how the martian's, etc view earthlings as lazy because of their benefit system though.

I agree about Caliban's war only been inferior in conparison to Leviathan in that it's still a very good read. It was worth it for the cantankerous old politician - I hope she's in the next installment.

[Jerol]

I finally got a chance to read this and I don't see the quibbles. The pace is definitely not slowing, the boys have expanded the range of POV characters and added some strong females, and that epilogue was great.

I don't really think that was Miller. It's just the Leviathan's construct for talking to Holden.

[karaddin]

I'm pretty sure something like that is happening in this series but has been outright stated yet. Holden has "several" parents and while it's supposed to be for the land they share I'm pretty sure there must also be a reason why they only had one child.

Finished it a couple of nights ago and I actually enjoyed it more than Leviathan Wakes. Contrary to what seems to be the opinion on here, I actually really enjoyed Prax, I found him to be entertaining and funny in a really understated way. Overall I'd say this was probably the funniest Sci Fi I've read, Dan and Ty together seem to make for very amusing reading.

I picked pretty early on that Avasarala and Prax were Dan, which left me knowing Bobbie was Ty (as I knew it was 2 POV each). Prax I guessed just based on the tragic air surrounding him putting Long Price Quartet in mind, Avasarala it wasn't so strong - but towards the end when she gets the message with the Haiku from Arjun it sealed it for me. It also teared me up, Dan is absolutely fantastic at capturing love, particularly in that kind of context.