22 replies to this topic

[Jimmy The Sellsword]

This is about the story arcs that deviated from the books. Which ones did you think were worthwhile, and which ones were just bad? This also applies to things that were missing (Reek/Ramsay from Theon's arc) and a story that didn't change but had extra things added in (everything in Kings Landing)
Personally I rank them like this (1 being the best, 6 being the worst)

1. Arya and Tywin
2. Robb and Jeyne
3. Kings Landing
4. No Reeds
5. No Ramsay
6. Quarth

I liked Arya and Tywin's scenes because they were well made. The two characters were constantly interacting, something that never happened in the book, but they were able to stay in the characters of Arya and Tywin. It wasn't forced or awkward. It was these two great characters interacting while staying true to their characterization. Only bad thing was the crappy Gregor this season, but thats excusable because he didn't do much in ACoK

Robb and Jeyne's relationship is glossed over in the books. The books make it seem like Robb is a complete moron for marrying her and betraying the Freys. When it comes to Robb and Catelyn in the books, their actions seem foolish and not very well thought out. The show is less blameful of them for the mistakes they make. It even forshadows the execution of lord Karstark. Instead of portraying him as a distraught father like in the books, the show portrays Karstark as an angry brute. In the book, all we see is his sadness at his son's death. In the show, we see him throw threats around at Cat and Robb. I am a little irked at how desperately HBO is trying to make the Starks faultless and perfect, but it does fill in things that we never saw in the books.

Kings landing was weird for me. The arc was a perfect retelling of Tyrion and Sansa's chapters in the book, but the added garbage for the first half of the season was annoying. Taking up time with unnecessary filler about Petyr Baelish and his bevy of whores was a dumb move. We didn't need the Joffrey torture scene because we already know just how evil he is. They could have used that time to add more to Dany's story.

I'm just plain annoyed by whats going on in Winterfell. The Reeds never show up, and when Theon takes over, there is no Reek. It ruins the climax of Theon's arc where Ramsay betrays the other northmen, and then the ironborn, and burns Winterfell. In the show, we don't even see Ramsay, or learn anything about him. The show gives no explanation as to why he did it. My grandmother and uncle watch the show, and she just finished ASOS while he has never read the books. She was angry that they don't explain why Winterfell was burned, and he didn't know why it was. That was a stupid move. HBO should have stuck to the original story or just not burnt the damn castle. Also, Theon and Bran's arcs would have been the most faithful to the books if it weren't for these missing characters.

Finally my thoughts on Dany and Qarth. We see nothing for 2 episodes. Only Dany for a few minutes, and a character who lives in the books gets killed. Whatever. Then Xaro is a black guy, and they play it off by saying he's a summer islander. That's fine. Then he claims to be the most powerful, and rich man in Qarth. This makes 0 sense because he's a foreigner. They explain that by having his vault be totally empty. That's all fine, but the real injustice is what happens with the 13 and Pyat Pree. It was more interesting than the book (Dany has her left breast out and asks people for an army), but suddenly stealing dragons, killing Irri/Jiqui, and making the house of the undying much less interesting than it was in the book. House of Undying should have been ep 8. I also noticed that HBO is sticking to its guns about NO FLASHBACKS EVER. We didn't see Ned's about the Tower, we didn't get to see Rhaegar with Aegon, and we won't see Jaime remembering Aerys. That is just a let down. While the scenes in house of the undying are cool, they get rid of the house' namesake, the freakin Undying. They should have included that from the story at least. Ep 10 would have had Dany meeting with Arsten, and she would be on her way. But no, they made Doreah Xaro's whore, and have the two of them locked in the empty vault. Does HBO know that some characters return in later books? If they did, they wouldn't spend so much time trying to kill them. The bad thing about Qarth is that HBO tried to make its own story, but they half-assed it, and spent more time focusing on the whores of KL.

Note to HBO, Game of Thrones has plenty, and I mean PLENTY, of sex. There is no need to fill half of a season with softcore porn instead of story and character development.

[Mladen]

Sansa`s line in Blackwater...epic, every line... That was the best...I also agree on Arya and Tywin

[Hamilton]

Theon taking Winterfell was amazing

[ServantOnIce]

Hmmm  I like Show Sansa and Shae and who can forget Tywin saying to Arya, "You remind me of my daughter Cersei."

[Flig]

I feel like HBO mucked up the majority of what was going on North of the Wall this season, will notable mention to Jon's trip with Qhorin Halfhand. In the books, Jon goes on a recon mission with one of the most badass members of the Watch, a mission in which he wargs, climbs a treacherous mountain in the dead of night to ambush enemies, shows mercy and set's up the "wildlings are just like us" thing fairly nicely, get's discovered by another skinchanger, flees through a mountain range as his party of companions dwindles one by one, wargs, has one of the most touching scenes in the books with Qhorin where the Halfhand explains that Jon must foresake his vows to help the watch, is captured by wildlings after a admirable chase and is forced to kill his Brother (with help from his direwolf pal) to get on Rattleshirt's good side and so at least one of them can survive to alert the Watch. This all sets up his battle with honor, duty, oaths, whether wildlings are the enemy or not, and all that good stuff. Did I mention he wargs? And has a direwolf? I did? Good.

In the show, however, Jon goes on a recon mission with one of the most badass members of the Watch, a mission where he sneaks up on a group of wildlings, doesn't kill the one because she's a girl and he doesn't have the stomach for it, let's this girl prisoner escape, clumsily chases after her, loses his companions, let's the wildling girl mock him and lead him into a trap, get's captured by wildlings in this trap, finds out his clumsiness get's his companions killed, and has to kill his Brother to get in good with the wildlings. All without ever Warging or seeing his fucking direwolf once.

I do so hate HBO's handling of Jon's arc this season. I really hate the fact that they never fucking show Ghost at all during his ranging with Qhorin.

[Winter In My Heart]

I agree with everything but the whole Robb/Jeyne bit. I mean I can understand in a sense why some people think it's better because it seems more justified in the show but to be honest it makes Robb's actions look more idiotic compared to the books. Basically in the books it all comes down to him not wanting Jeyne dishonored for having sex before marriage. In the show, while he supposedly loves Talisa is that honestly a good reason to marry her? Especially when Catelyn straight up tells him that doing so will piss off the Frey's. I mean look at it this way. The girl is a foreigner, it does not sound like someone of his rank marries someone from the Free Cities in the series even if they are highborn. His bannermen don't like her and call her a foreign b**ch. This is just one example of how idiotic it was to marry her because some are going to question his decisions. (Even if they did do it this way to give the Bolton's a reason to betray the Starks.) But on top of that they completely screwed up his character and he doesn't really 'act like a Stark' in the show. Where in the books his idiotic choices are based off misguided sense of 'honor', in the show they make him seem like some love sick puppy to a knock off version of Shae. (Exotic foreigner blah blah blah.) And not only that but he completely goes back on his fathers principles. (Which okay I can sort of understand why as far as Ned being killed because of honor, but that it completely different compared to how the books are.) All in all, HBO really screwed up with Robb's character by adding Talisa instead of keeping Jeyne.

There's just so many freaking flaws with this story arc that it's sad. It really makes watching it un-enjoyable because of how badly they screwed it up.

[Arkash]

Theon...

[protar]

Robb and Talisa was one of the worst for me. Right up there with Qarth and beyond the Wall. As they portrayed things in the show Robb is very unsympathetic and both him and Cat look even more stupid then in the books. Not to mention the awful writing. I can't comprehend how anyone could like that plot.

[sillent]

You really think Robb & Cat look like bigger idiots in the books? lol okay.....

[nightwisp]

I like what they did with Theon, and maybe the Arya story but the Qarth part really messed things up, in my opinion, and the House of Undying was not elaborated upon as in the books.The Talise/Robb arc was OK. I think us who have read the books know she was really Jeyne anyway.

[Winter In My Heart]

nightwisp, on 17 June 2012 - 09:44 AM, said:

I like what they did with Theon, and maybe the Arya story but the Qarth part really messed things up, in my opinion, and the House of Undying was not elaborated upon as in the books.The Talise/Robb arc was OK. I think us who have read the books know she was really Jeyne anyway.

I think many might disagree with you that she is actually Jeyne. Oona just is not the right fit for the actual character of Jeyne. I know they have her have some similar descent to Jeyne but there is just to many inconsistencies for her to actually be. I would think if she was actually from Westeros the northern army, Catelyn, Robb, and all of the would at least KNOW that much. Like be able to tell she's not a foreigner. Which the bannermen clearly think she isn't from their homeland when one, can't remember which, called her a foreign b**ch. With Melisandre and Shae one is also able to tell they weren't actually born in Westeros and I think the same is with Talisa that one could tell just by looking at her that she is foreign.

I know there are also inconsistencies with Talisa like Catelyn having never heard her family's name before but who knows maybe Westeros families aren't very well known to Free City family names.

If you do happen to be right and the third season somehow twists it around for her to be a Westerling well then I would say that was the worst casting they could have possibly done. Oona is absolutely nothing like Jeyne is described. But as of right now I really do think that Talisa is just Talisa. Even with her obviously keeping some sort of secret, I think that is merely because she is a Lannister spy or something of that nature . The whole not recognizing her last name thing is kind of off putting but who knows maybe she isn't in a family that is very well known. (They could be another Westerlings in regards of being a smaller noble house.)

protar, on 17 June 2012 - 04:06 AM, said:

Robb and Talisa was one of the worst for me. Right up there with Qarth and beyond the Wall. As they portrayed things in the show Robb is very unsympathetic and both him and Cat look even more stupid then in the books. Not to mention the awful writing. I can't comprehend how anyone could like that plot.

Completely agree. They really do screw up but Robb and Catelyn's personalities. While I'm kind of hating what they're doing beyond the wall I must admit I kind of like show Yigrette much more than the book. Couldn't stand her in the books. I might actually care when she dies in the show lol.

And Quarth was just awful. I hated that weak HotU scene.

[Jamie Lannister]

It says a lot that even when leaving out my most anticipated character ("Reek"), Theon's arc could still be so strong and dramatic. Some aspects suffered, naturally, but eh. There was some great writing at work, and some of the deviations (Theon flirting with the notion of warning Robb and staying loyal to the Starks in the letter burning scene) were somewhat enriching.

They really did piss up the ending though.

[The Last Reyne]

I agree with you on the Arya/Tywin scenes. They were excellent and didn't significantly change the show. They actually add a little tension I thought that added to the show. As for the worst let me quote...

Flig, on 16 June 2012 - 10:14 PM, said:

I do so hate HBO's handling of Jon's arc this season. I really hate the fact that they never fucking show Ghost at all during his ranging with Qhorin.

The Jon story line was aweful. The changes just made no sense and actually hurt the storyline. I'm not sure what the writers and the producers were thinking but this was just bad.

[Frey Pie]

They started off  very well. Jon seeing the Other was all to the good. Theons arc i thought at the beginning was done better then the books- the letter scene was simple yet poignant. But the last few episodes were totally off. Theons arc was messed up, Danys, Robbs, Jon and Qhorin. Tyrion i guess was ok. And Arya as well. The improv with Tywin was enjoyable as he has such resence.

Really though at the end it was beginning to take on an Eragon movie feel to it....

[Mr Motte]

Spice King, hands down.

[dtones520]

How is Robb marrying a woman he loves unsympathetic? I'm pretty sure that everyone has done something stupid for love. I don't think there is many people here who have married someone because they took their virginity and felt bad about it.

[Jamie Lannister]

dtones520, on 25 June 2012 - 05:06 PM, said:

How is Robb marrying a woman he loves unsympathetic? I'm pretty sure that everyone has done something stupid for love. I don't think there is many people here who have married someone because they took their virginity and felt bad about it.

It just seems weak in comparison to the source material's depiction of Robb's romance, which packs a much harder and despair-laced (and therefore more moving, compelling, and sympathetic) punch.

Robb and "Lady Talisa's" relationship seems like average fanfiction to me. Why take such cliche-ridden deviances when you have free reign to use perfectly adaptable (and marginally better) source material? It took all the urgency out of the scenario, and traded it for... well, that.

[ipsuel]

Tywin/Arya -- what's not to love... They're two amazing actors, the writing wasn't bad (although there were a few <smh> moments) and, most importantly--it doesn't really change the story overall.

Although I would still prefer her to have been w/Bolton... it's one change I came to enjoy.

[dtones520]

Jamie Lannister, on 25 June 2012 - 05:35 PM, said:

It just seems weak in comparison to the source material's depiction of Robb's romance, which packs a much harder and despair-laced (and therefore more moving, compelling, and sympathetic) punch.

Robb and "Lady Talisa's" relationship seems like average fanfiction to me. Why take such cliche-ridden deviances when you have free reign to use perfectly adaptable (and marginally better) source material? It took all the urgency out of the scenario, and traded it for... well, that.

You really think that an HBO audience is going to sit there and think that marrying someone because you had sex with her makes sense? The fact that Robb was even having sex after finding it his brothers died was weird to me.

[Every]

Jamie Lannister, on 25 June 2012 - 05:35 PM, said:

It just seems weak in comparison to the source material's depiction of Robb's romance, which packs a much harder and despair-laced (and therefore more moving, compelling, and sympathetic) punch.

Robb and "Lady Talisa's" relationship seems like average fanfiction to me. Why take such cliche-ridden deviances when you have free reign to use perfectly adaptable (and marginally better) source material? It took all the urgency out of the scenario, and traded it for... well, that.

Agreed. The whole tone of their relationship seems so out of keeping with the rest of the story - it feels like a cliched romance transplanted from somewhere else, just for the sake of having it. If they were desperate to give Robb a love story, why couldn't they have just strengthened the relationship with Jeyne, instead of creating this implausibly exotic healer Mary Sue?

Like everyone, I loved the Arya/Tywin interaction. I also like the different nuances they're bringing to Sansa's character.

Edited by Every, 26 June 2012 - 12:49 AM.