Joan of Arc, on 21 June 2012 - 07:18 AM, said:
Ned does not seem the man to be messing around with a woman if he is in fact: fleeing to Winterfell to gather his banners, march off to the Riverlands to be maried to Cat for support, march to the Trident to meet up with the royal forces and then speed march to KL to save the Iron Throne for his friend Robert. And this is only the short list.
Ned would have been occupied with doing a war. Yes he could have partied around after a victory. But we are talking here about honarable Ned "quiet wolf" Stark. Married to a family with the words "Family, Duty, Honor" Ned would certainly not dishonor Cat because he would loose his support of the Tullies. We all know that it took two marriages to involve the Tully's into the rebellion.
With those arguments I think that is it not likely that 'there was this girl' was from when they where rebels. If talk about it reached Robert, it would have reached to the ears of what ever Tully was around.
Exept that having 'a woman' as a camp follower during war is nothing unexpected. Not only do we see other instances of this, but Catelyn herself thinks that it would have been ok and she could have forgiven Ned for such if only he hadn't brought Jon home to raise as party of his family.
And for Robert, this is default behaviour. He knows Ned isn't like that (especially not messing with a noblewoman's honour), but he can believe 'that one time' Ned slipped (but not with a noblewoman) (and especially as it kind of makes his own behavior not so bad). This is about what is believable for Robert, no one else thinks Wylla is Jon's mother.
Joan of Arc, on 21 June 2012 - 07:18 AM, said:
Good point. At the surface it seems to fit. Wylla became a wetnurse for birthing Jon leaving her a good life, in the care of the House Dayne. Only Wylla is also "Ned" Dayne's wet nurse. And he tells Arya that she was in service for 'years and years'.
'Years and years' would cover since Wylla-the-wet-nurse left Winterfell and went to Starfall. This is a 12 year old boy talking, talking about the woman who nursed him. She
has been in the Dayne household for 'years and years' - since she ceased nursing Jon.
She may have been in the Dayne household before then, but we have no knowledge of that. I think she probably was, or at least associated with the Daynes or Starfall directly, as she was probably chosen as Jon's wetnurse on behalf of Lyanna by Arthur Dayne or Ashara Dayne. But that is just supposition. All we really know, or have strong evidence for, is that she was probably at the ToJ when Ned got there as he would've need a wetnurse for the journey to Starfall, and Lyanna would probably have had one standing by anyway.
Joan of Arc, on 21 June 2012 - 07:18 AM, said:
From describtion of Ned Dayne, he and Jon Snow are close in age(?). My conclusion to this is that Wylla already was at least a servant for the House of Dayne before she was Jons wet nurse.
No, Ned Dayne and Jon are not of an age. They are about 2-3 years apart. Clearly Wylla nursed Jon, then when he was weaned left Winterfell (here presence probably made Catelyn uncomfortable) and took up a position at Starfall.
That doesn't mean she had such a position before that though (though as I said above, it seems reasonable that she did at least have an association with the Daynes).
Joan of Arc, on 21 June 2012 - 07:18 AM, said:
The war was in the West, Riverlands and KL. There is no shred of evidence that the South got involved with the rebelion or that Ned would have todo something in the South that Robert should know of.
If you mean was Ned ever in the south, then no, as far as we know he was not (until after the war ended). But there is nothing to nail Wylla down south the whole time. Its perfectly reasonable to think that a northern commander took up temporarily with a dornish camp follower who was away from home, got her pregnant, sent her home to have the baby and then went south after the war was over to pick the kid up. You know, all those songs about dornishwomen...
Joan of Arc, on 21 June 2012 - 07:18 AM, said:
If Ned was hidding the truth from Robert about Jon, why would he come up with the name of Jons real wet nurse to Robert?
Why wouldnt he? Its not only a checkable fact that he can't easily risk lying about, its a perfect cover for Jon's real mother.
Joan of Arc, on 21 June 2012 - 09:53 AM, said:
Yes. Its from a 'hersey' thing that Robert remembers. 'She made you forget your honor, if even for an hour'. Robert knows Neds honor would prevent him from fathering a bastard. Again. If this is 'hersey' from the rebellion period, the Tully's would have known.
So to me the 'hersey' had to come from a different period it time.
Except your premise is flawed. Its no big deal and the Tulleys wouldn't care, so no reason anyone would've told them.
Not that it matters anyway, since we are talking about what
Robert believes, not what the Tulleys believe.
Joan of Arc, on 21 June 2012 - 09:53 AM, said:
Now we know that there is actually one point in time where Ned really could have lost his honor, even for an hour. If that thruthfull anwser was 'Ashara (Dayne)' he could say 'Wylla' (the wetnurse in service of the House Dayne) and tell a half-truth.
My problem with Wylla is that she is in the Dayne camp. Some theories place her at the ToJ, helping Lyanna to give birth to Jon. To explain that fact, but I go a step further. It might have been that Wylla was present at Harrenhal as a servant to the Daynes. We don't know that I know.
The evidence is pretty thin. Based on 'hersey' Robert picked up about Ned.
I think even Robert could pick up on a baby being born two years or more 'overdue'.
Jon is
clearly not a product of Harrenhal. He
clearly is a product of a few months into the war. There is zero point in thinking about potential failings at other times, since Robert is explicitly talking about Jon being Ned's 'that one time'.
Joan of Arc, on 21 June 2012 - 10:06 AM, said:
My point is: Robert knows where babies come from, but thats it. If Robert would have known it takes nine months to produce a baby, he would at least have suspected something's wrong with his own offspring.
Err, no. Robert is usually too drunk to remember that Cersei hasn't let him finish inside her.
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