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Any theories on who killed Little Walder?


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That Balon Greyjoy was killed by a Faceless Man.

The two Frey's that went missing en route to Winterfell were made into pies.

That Bloodraven is warging Mormont's raven.

That Ser Hugh's death was a random accident.

That Alleras is Sarella Sand.

That Jaqen was the Alchemist.

Lyanna Stark is likely the Knight of the Laughing Tree.

The word Brienne said to save her life from Lady Stoneheart was "sword".

Just some examples of things that George has already revealed that won't be spelt out explicitly for you in the text.

Thank you for making the list and saving me the trouble.

I'm also still flummoxed that this is still being discussed. Seems an open-and-shut case to me. :dunno:

ETA: It was three Freys who were made into pies!! :D

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Taken from my copy of ASOS:

"Jammos's son WALDER, called BIG WALDER, a boy of eight, taken captive at Winterfell while a ward of Lady Catelyn Stark

Merrett's son WALDER, called LITTLE WALDER, a boy of seven, taken captive at Winterfell while a ward of Lady Catelyn Stark"

BIG WALDER is all of, what, ten years old? when his cousin is murdered. He is ahead of LITTLE WALDER in the line of succession to The Twins and as has been noted here and by Theon in ADWD, he is made of different stuff to LITTLE WALDER who takes his lessons from Ramsey.

All of which makes it hard for me to see such a young child as the killer. He has blood on him but this is hardly enough to convince without motive, means and opportunity being addressed. If it was a fight between them how could a boy so young act so calm and be so deceptive afterwards?

Because he's a Frey?

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Yes that place has some significance. Lady Dustin knows where the crypt entrance is (as do Theon and Lady Dustin's men, at least 2 of them.) I am not sure if anyone else knows. The crypts also have deep levels that we havent explored yet.

Sorry to quote myself - the reread has shown me that BIg and Little Walder also know where the crypts are. RIckon took them there while Bran was Lord of Winterfell

BW might have gone there covered in blood before creeping out to get LW back.

The killing of LW might also have gotten BW soaked in blood and BW is too terrified to say what happened.

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Except that there's no time for the bloodied snow to melt on Big Walder; his story is he finds Little Walder under a snowbank, and Hosteen Frey carries him inside.

So when did the blood melt on Big Walder? Why was it on him at all, if he wasn't the one to carry Little Walder? Why isn't Hosteen Frey, the one who actually carries Little Walder, also covered in unfrozen blood?

If BW got bloody snow on him, it would melt unless BW had been out long enough for his clothing to get that cold (doubtful) also ANYthing on the clothes, like dust, would cause the snow to melt at lower temp. Blood itself in the snow would melt the snow faster. LW body was cold and he had been in the snowbank so frost could form on him. BW may have been the actual guy who dug LW out getting himself covered in bloody snow.

I still suspect BW just because GRRM likes little things to lead to epic disasters.

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Apologies for a dumb question (and being a tad OT) but, why is the Hooded Man not Mance Rayder?

I thought it was quite clear, but I might have got it all wrong!

I wont say who he is or isn't, but teh argument is that Mance is Abel (sp?) the singer inside the hall

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That Ser Hugh's death was a random accident.

Ser Hugh was more likely killed on purpose by Gregor for the simple reason that his gorget wasnt properly placed. Gregor will kill someone for no reason, just because he can.

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I am going to give this one more try. For frost to form on a surface, that surface must be colder than the surrounding air temperature. When I read the description of LW being armored in pink frost, my first thought was, "Damn, that body is cold." This indicates to me that LW was killed hours before his body was brought into the hall. If BW had just killed LW, the body would not be cold enough to form frost. Now the question is, did GRRM make LW's body covered in a pink frost to simply indicate it is very cold or is it a clue that LW had been killed hours before BW found his body? As someone who has lived over 40 years in the transition zone to the subarctic, I immediately think of how cold a frost covered object must be rather than how cold the air is. Acknowledging that my RW experiences are not necessarily transferable to a fantasy novel, I think the description of Holly's death was intended for us to at least think about the possibility that BW got his cousin's blood on him when he dug out the body. Another thing that is being overlooked in the BW killed LW theory is that the wounds on LW's body are not described. He could have had one wound or fifty. Ser Hosteen saying he was butchered does not really tell us if LW was killed in a frenzied attack or by one quick killing wound. Anyhow, I think there is definitely enough room for doubt here, and I would not vote to convict with the evidence at hand.

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I so want the hooded man to be a vengefull Howland Reed trying to get some justice for the deaths of Jojen and Meera who he probably believes dead at the hands of freys/bolton. I think he question lil walder on the where abouts of his children and didnt get the answers he wanted so obviously he couldnt let him live. thats my theory would be a badass way to introduce a character that has so much story about him.

Wow I never considered it might be Howlan Reed. He would probably know his way around Winterfell being a friend of the Starks and he is small in stature and the Crannogmen are supposed to be good at stealth. How awesome would it be if this is how GRRM finally introduces us to the mysterious Howlan Reed.

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Maybe a bit of a crackpot, but what about the hooded man being Davos? He laughed when Theon showed him his left hand (with some fingers missing). Davos could be inside Winterfell to tell Manderly he already has Rickon so Manderly can join Stannis. However, I can't see Davos killing a kid.

Excuse my English, I'm not a native speaker.

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Maybe a bit of a crackpot, but what about the hooded man being Davos? He laughted when Theon showed him his left hand (with some fingers missing). Davos could be inside Winterfell to tell Manderly he already has Rickon so Manderly can join Stannis. However, I can't see Davos killing a kid.

Excuse my English, I'm not a native speaker.

Davos is most certainly near or at Skavos.

The Hooded Man is unlikely to be him.

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Davos is most certainly near or at Skavos.

The Hooded Man is unlikely to be him.

I am not sure it would make much sense to spend any pages describing Davos's trip to Skagos. If Manderly and Davos had left WH the very same day, the latter could have gone to Skagos and back before the Ghost of Winterfell chapter.

It's still a crackpot theory, though.

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Since Little Walder was betrothed to Wylla Manderly, and since I'm convinced that Lord Wyman would want to ensure that is brave granddaughter is not going to marry this piece of shit, he remains a suspect in ordering his death.

On the other hand, he would have had little reason to do so at this particular time (all the other murders did also made him and his look suspicious enough), so my guess is still that it was deranged Theon. He states repeatedly that he still can wield a dagger/knife, and proves so when cutting Ralf Kenning's throat at Moat Cailin...

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Since Little Walder was betrothed to Wylla Manderly, and since I'm convinced that Lord Wyman would want to ensure that is brave granddaughter is not going to marry this piece of shit, he remains a suspect in ordering his death.

On the other hand, he would have had little reason to do so at this particular time (all the other murders did also made him and his look suspicious enough), so my guess is still that it was deranged Theon. He states repeatedly that he still can wield a dagger/knife, and proves so when cutting Ralf Kenning's throat at Moat Cailin...

He would have no need to kill him. When he revealed his intentions he would have no isue to break the engagment.

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I am not sure it would make much sense to spend any pages describing Davos's trip to Skagos. If Manderly and Davos had left WH the very same day, the latter could have gone to Skagos and back before the Ghost of Winterfell chapter.

It's still a crackpot theory, though.

I can see it. Didnt they rebuild Winterfell in this time? Only I dont know why Davos woild be in the godswoods. Davos was with Osha who spent't time with Bran and in the first book it explains how Bran knew Winterfell like no other and how to sneak around.

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