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Maggy the Frog, theory about her prophecy


leo0274

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well, the way the prophecy was put, it doesn't even have to be a queen ... I think it's Sansa. She certainly still has some unfinished business with Cersei and she was - unknowingly - involved in Joffrey's murder. There's also the prophecy concerning Sansa destroying a giant, and since unGregor is Cersei's champion, there may well be a connection (provided the giant in that prophecy isn't LF)

And Jaime for valonqar because Cersei would never see that coming.

Plus Cersei saw, during her walk of shame, Sansa with Lady in the crowd. Again a foreshadowing? Sansa and jaime being them seem very likely, especially he and Brienne are getting closer to the Vale. I could totally see them protecting Sansa. For once Sansa, since AGOT, needs proper adults, who arent damaged, in her life. I totally expect her to become a player once she slayed the savage giant a.k.a little finger, but she will need some advice. Preference to Brienne and jaime of course.

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Cersei:"When will I wed the prince?"

Maggy:"Never. You will wed the king."

Cersei:"I will be queen, though?"

Maggy:"Aye. Queen you shall be... until there comes another, younger and more beautiful, to cast you down and take all that you hold dear."

Who is that "younger and more beautiful" queen?

I thinks it's Daenerys, I think she will become the queen of the seven kingdoms, and she will discover tha Jon Snow is Rhaegar' son, and will make him the lord of the north.

Cersei:"Will the king and I have children?"

Maggy:"Oh, aye. Six-and-ten for him, and three for you."

Maggy:"Gold shall be their crowns and gold their shrouds," she said. "And when your tears have drowned you, the valonqar shall wrap his hands about your pale white throat and choke the life from you."

Who is the valonqar?

I was thinking about being Jon Snow, but now I think it will be Tyrion, she always hated him, and after reading storm of swords, she hates him more.

what do you think about my theories? do you have your own?

I like your theory on Dany, though it does seem that Margery has fulfilled the prophecy.

As far as the valonquar a Jaimie, Tyrion or any of the Starks are possible, but for shock value what if it is Tommen?

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Plus Cersei saw, during her walk of shame, Sansa with Lady in the crowd. Again a foreshadowing? Sansa and jaime being them seem very likely, especially he and Brienne are getting closer to the Vale. I could totally see them protecting Sansa. For once Sansa, since AGOT, needs proper adults, who arent damaged, in her life. I totally expect her to become a player once she slayed the savage giant a.k.a little finger, but she will need some advice. Preference to Brienne and jaime of course.

Interesing...Yes Sansa needs an ally and so far they have all been users. Except the Hound. He needs to come back i think.

The savage giant - is that the one seen by the woman at High Heart? I thought that was just a vision of Robert smushing up Sansa's snow castle. Perhaps there will be something similar happening at the real Winterfell.

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I like your theory on Dany, though it does seem that Margery has fulfilled the prophecy.

As far as the valonquar a Jaimie, Tyrion or any of the Starks are possible, but for shock value what if it is Tommen?

Only an UnTommen - he is dead before Cersei dies.

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Interesing...Yes Sansa needs an ally and so far they have all been users. Except the Hound. He needs to come back i think.

The savage giant - is that the one seen by the woman at High Heart? I thought that was just a vision of Robert smushing up Sansa's snow castle. Perhaps there will be something similar happening at the real Winterfell.

Why on earth would the woman, who makes only prophecies about political game changers, do a prophecy about such a silly matter. Plus the first part of the prophecy about Sansa is all in metaphor. Again why on earth would the second half be in the literally sense? I think that prophecy indicates, especially if you compare it to the other prophecies, how the birth of Sansa as a player. At least THAT makes sense. Nor do I think is it a coincidence that Sansa is in a kingdom who have been outside of the war an who where near at rebellion against Lysa so they could join Robb's rebellion.

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Why on earth would the woman, who makes only prophecies about political game changers, do a prophecy about such a silly matter. Plus the first part of the prophecy about Sansa is all in metaphor. Again why on earth would the second half be in the literally sense? I think that prophecy indicates, especially if you compare it to the other prophecies, how the birth of Sansa as a player. At least THAT makes sense. Nor do I think is it a coincidence that Sansa is in a kingdom who have been outside of the war an who where near at rebellion against Lysa so they could join Robb's rebellion.

Well she sees all kinds of things. The giant destroying the castle could very well be metaphor since it was a doll and and a snow sculpture of a castle whereas the prediction made it all sound real. This event with the doll and snow castle actually precipitated a huge game changer, ending in Lysa's death, so not insignificant.

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I love how nobody believes my theory her Valonqar being Benjen Stark. It'll be all the more sweeter :cool4:

I love this. I want this to be true. I believe.

The Valonquar could be any little brother. I think Maggy using a Valyrian word is significant. Who knew Robert Baratheon would be king? Not a single soul in Westeros. Every King previous had been a Targaryen. I don't think any of the characters we know are viable, but I would LOVE for it to be Benjen Stark.

Maybe Dany and Jon are twins. Jon is the younger, as Jaime is to Cersei. Maybe Jon is the Valonquar. :smoking:

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I love this. I want this to be true. I believe.

The Valonquar could be any little brother. I think Maggy using a Valyrian word is significant. Who knew Robert Baratheon would be king? Not a single soul in Westeros. Every King previous had been a Targaryen. I don't think any of the characters we know are viable, but I would LOVE for it to be Benjen Stark.

Maybe Dany and Jon are twins. Jon is the younger, as Jaime is to Cersei. Maybe Jon is the Valonquar. :smoking:

Jon is too busy to be the Valonqar and he's not a little brother of anyone directly hurt by Cersei. Benjen is down south planning the right time to strike. I came to my conclusion by figuring out where Benjen most likely isn't.

1. Benjen is too young to be Coldhands. Coldhands was taken long ago.

2. He wouldn't be able to survive north of the wall with the Others back. Which means he went south.

3. Benjen wouldn't go back to Winterfell as a deserter.

4. Wherever he went, it would be far south of the Riverlands to avoid being recognized.

5. Benjen went missing around the same time Ned was arrested.

That's why I think Benjen is the Valonqar.

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Only an UnTommen - he is dead before Cersei dies.

That doesn't exactly follow from the prophecy, which just states that all of her children will be crowned and that they will die as king/ queen. Her being killed by the valonqar at the depth of her despair is not necessarily related.

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I was all for Jaime being the valonqar. I agreed with many of the theories stated above (he killing her for the death of their children or Brienne´s death), but I hadn’t thought of the word “hands”. He only has one.

I would love it if the vlqr was Stannis or The Hound because it would mean Sandor is alive.

I just thought it could be Theon since he is a younger brother too. Maybe Stannis pardons him and sends him to kill Cersei.

http://reinosdefabula.blogspot.com/

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'Hands' might also refer to Hands of the king. We all know how much Cersei 'loves' them. Would also be payback for what she did to Arryn and Ned. It could therefore even be that her crimes against them cause her ultimate downfall when Lancel (who is a younger male relative) accuses her.

Love all the fun possibilities, like this one too:

I read a thread about it being Stannis, and I laughed my ass off, and was like, "What? You crazy." Then I read ADWD and found this stuff in Asha's POV: She tells Stannis to make her his friend and says Robert was known for making fallen foes his friends. He blows her off. Justin Massey is like, "Bad idea. Never speak to him of Robert."

Then this stuff:

I should have known better. Asha knew how it went with little brothers. She remembered Theon a sa boy, a shy child who lived in awe, and fear, of Rodrik and Maron. They never grow out of it, she decided. A little brother may live to be a hundred, but he will always be a little brother."

Stannis is the valonqar, I am SOLD. That dialogue just sticks out like a sore thumb. It is so gratuitous. Either it's foreshadowing, or GRRM trolling the reader just for laughs.

Good one. Added to this, Stannis is her brother, at least by marriage and not just a random younger male character.

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I don't think Margaery is the younger more beautiful queen, partly becasue I don't want her to be. Partly because Tommen and Myrcella have yet to receive their golden shrouds. Partly because everything she holds dear has yet to be cast down, she still has her son and daughter. And she's yet to drown in her tears, yea sure she isn't happy atm and her time in jail wasn't happy happy fun time, but still. I also think she will retain some power now that Kevan and Pycelle are no longer, either at Casterly Rock or KL and that has to be taken away from her. So the only one who'll fit that time frame will be Dany or maybe Sansa

For the valonqar there are way too much possibilities to say anything with some certainty, Tyrion is probably too obvious that everyone dismisses him, which may be the reason he will yet become the valonqar. I don't think Jaime will stoop to kinslaying, if he's still alive after following Brienne, unless he kills her in a fit of rage or sumthing. In the prophecy it clearly states that the Valonqar will wrap his Hands around her neck, that's pretty hard to do with 1 normal hand a golden one. My personal favourite for the valonqar is Stannis, since he's Robert's little brother. And it's about The Valonqar, but that may be some nitpicking. Sandor as the valonqar seems a little farfetched to me, he never seemed to have such a hate for Cersei, so why should he kill her, and btw he's either dead or the dog in him is dead.

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Jon is too busy to be the Valonqar and he's not a little brother of anyone directly hurt by Cersei. Benjen is down south planning the right time to strike. I came to my conclusion by figuring out where Benjen most likely isn't.

1. Benjen is too young to be Coldhands. Coldhands was taken long ago.

2. He wouldn't be able to survive north of the wall with the Others back. Which means he went south.

3. Benjen wouldn't go back to Winterfell as a deserter.

4. Wherever he went, it would be far south of the Riverlands to avoid being recognized.

5. Benjen went missing around the same time Ned was arrested.

That's why I think Benjen is the Valonqar.

Although I like your theory for Benjen, you can't dismiss Jon as the Valonqar. Jon was raised as a Stark. Cersei is responsible for Ned's death, Arya's road to sociopathy and Sansa's torture at the hands of Joffrey. If my crackpot theory of he and Dany being twins are true and he is the second born, then he is little brother to Dany----who is rightfully Queen of Westeros! :laugh:

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Still pondering this after finishing the series...well, among many issues.

The one thing I am sure of imho is that it will not be Margaery. It would be anti-climactic now. She already was queen to Renley, queen to Joffrey, and we saw her tussle with Cersei. Cersei did bring her down although Cersei is now still in deep herself.

This Queen of the Prophecy will come out on top due to Cersei making mistakes. Of that I am sure. It will be worse for her because it will be of her own doing. It will ruin her and her family possibly. Not that that road hasn't started already. Totally someone that she discounted.

Not sure yet. But I do think the prophecy will pass with a twist, and I am ruling out Margaery. I also think that what Cersei pulled with Margeary caused her major problems but not nearly enough. There will be more. Safe to say she has alienated everyone and made many more enemies than before. Mace will be a deciding factor in later books. He will not forgive or forget what happened to his daughter. It somehow makes me think that money will not be an issue for him, nor any headaches caused by going against his alliance outwardly with the Lannisters to clear his daughter and avenge what happened to her.

Makes me thing that Cersei's mistakes will somehow turn against her and somehow empower the Starks.

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It could be even more metaphorical than that. Cersei is paranoid about Tyrion popping up and strangling her etc. But none of the prophecies have been that direct. I'd be surprised if hers was.

What interests me is the wording "pale white throat." It may sound crazy, but it makes me think that it doesn't even have to be Cersei's throat. It could be a cryptic reference to something that is going to happen at The Neck. It could be her own life or complete annihilation of her troops and/or claim on the crown. (Also I think all her children will have to be crowned and dead before this happens... maybe after they die she tries to take the realm for herself? she is crazy like that).

We also know little and less of Valeryan and we can't actually translate this for ourselves. Does this really mean younger brother does it mean younger sibling does it specifically imply only one? There are so many younger brothers in power in this series that anyone could lead a force against her. (But if the term doesn't translate well, Dany herself could be the younger "brother/sibling" as she would have been last of Aerys's children to inherit the crown.) It could be even more cryptic and mean the North itself as a younger brother as it's recently claimed to be it's own kingdom.

But I would play with the idea of it being Arya as well as she was constantly getting called a boy and ran off to become a Faceless Man and don't forget you'd get the tie of Valeryan language being used in Bravvos. It would also complete her hit list and let's face it, Cersei would never expect her. It's fun to speculate about who it could be. lol. :)

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Jon is too busy to be the Valonqar and he's not a little brother of anyone directly hurt by Cersei. Benjen is down south planning the right time to strike. I came to my conclusion by figuring out where Benjen most likely isn't.

1. Benjen is too young to be Coldhands. Coldhands was taken long ago.

2. He wouldn't be able to survive north of the wall with the Others back. Which means he went south.

3. Benjen wouldn't go back to Winterfell as a deserter.

4. Wherever he went, it would be far south of the Riverlands to avoid being recognized.

5. Benjen went missing around the same time Ned was arrested.

That's why I think Benjen is the Valonqar.

I thought Benjen went missing much sooner than when Ned got arrested. Didn't he go ranging on Jon's first week there? Jon asked to go with him and he said no. Ned was still on the Kingsroad. I thought Yoren later bought the news to Ned at the same time he informed him that Cat had captured Tyrion.

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