Maggy the Frog, theory about her prophecy

[rmholt]

You know what's weird - I just re-read parts of A Clash of Kings, and Catelyn says that she would love to go to King's Landing and wrap her hands around Cercei's pale throat and choke her until it turns black. Now, I do NOT think Lady Stoneheart makes any sense as the valonquar, but I was really surprised by that quote.

The Rat King wasnt at Winterfell either. Another parallel - ism perhaps. It even parallels with Shae.

[Wouter]

With Kevan past and gone Cersei's return to the Rock is less than certain and should her trial by combat go well she'll be back on top of her game.

Even if Cersei wins her trial (which she likely will considering she can call on an undefeatable champion, so a trial by combat is a guaranteed win) she's not automatically back on top of her game. Cersie has publically confessed and been humiliated. She is no longer queen regent, the Tyrells completely dominate the small council (even moreso with Kevan and Pycelle gone), have by far the largest army in and around KL (and likely this will stay so even if the Tyrells send off a good chunk to battle the Golden Company) and Margaery has a lot of influence on Tommen. She has her work cut out to get back to the lofty heights of being regent and dominating the small council. With "Robert Strong" she has a trump card, but one she cannot keep using IMO.

[Visenya Nymeria]

I read a lot of posts here and here is a thought, (probably someone already said it but) what if the little brother is the brother of Arianne, who is across the narrow sea??

[Jolene Brown]

I read a lot of posts here and here is a thought, (probably someone already said it but) what if the little brother is the brother of Arianne, who is across the narrow sea??

Um... not likely...

[Aemrys]

Jaime is the valonqar. Cersei was born before Jaime, and while they are defined as twins for obvious reasons, Jaime would still technically be the valonqar. We know that Cersei has said that "if I had only been born with a cock", which means that had she been born a boy, she would be the heir even if they'd be twins. Simply because she came out an hour before him or whatever the timespan was. Tyrion is too obvious as her killer, and Jaime would be far more shocking and epic.

[Ellissa Snow]

Shrouds are for dead people

Shroud:

Something that conceals, protects, or screens:

under a shroud of fog.

If there has been specific evidence telling us that in this case, the shroud is in the burial sense, please correct me because I have obviously missed it and I apologize. My intention was only to suggest that this has been misinterpreted.

[Jolene Brown]

Crowns seems to have more double meanings in a practical sense than shroud. I feel like even though there are alternative meanings for shrouds, it just feels like more of a stretch. You could definitely say, using that definition, though, that their shrouds have been gold all their lives - their true identity as crimson Lannisters is "concealed" by their golden Baratheon identity, or their shrouds. It even protects them as well, from the consequences of their being named as what they are, with the implication throughout the series that they would be put to death (at least by Robert, I don't know what would happen now that they are dead). But somehow it just doesn't feel quite as on point as "gold shall be their crowns" referring to their crowns of golden hair or something like that.

[finishingmove]

I think the queen is Sansa, and the valonqar is either Arya or Tyrion.

Also if you take it as it's just "another will come along, younger and more beautiful", not specifically a queen, it could mean Lyanna, she took Rhaegar and Robert and she is younger and considered beautiful.

Interesting thought about Arya being the valonqar.

Also, "another, younger and more beautiful" does not necessarily imply a woman.

[Wichfried]

I can imagine very well that Cersei dies by suicide and the hands on her throat have only symbolic meaning.

[danm_999]

I read a lot of posts here and here is a thought, (probably someone already said it but) what if the little brother is the brother of Arianne, who is across the narrow sea??

Err, you've read ADWD yes?

[rmholt]

Petyr could be the valonqar, younger than the Tully girls, and certainly willing to take out Cersei. Though it seems like a stretch even to me that he would be a) close enough to the little bro of the Tullys and b ) that willing to act directly and openly.

[tze]

Cersei in some ways seems to share elements with the Wicked Queen from the story of Snow White.

She's obsessed with the notion of physical beauty. Jaime, her "mirror", tells her that she's beautiful---that she's basically the fairest of them all. She's given a prophecy that says "Queen you shall be... until there comes another, younger and more beautiful, to cast you down and take all that you hold dear.” The Wicked Queen in the story of Snow White ends up destroying herself by going after Snow White because Snow White is deemed younger and more beautiful than her.

So to determine the person who will cast Cersei down and take all that Cersei holds dear . . . well, if Cersei's a deconstruction of the Wicked Queen motif, then who's our Snow White? Margaery fulfills the "wicked queen actively tried to get her murdered out of jealousy" quotient. Mya Stone fulfills several Snow White characteristics---she matches the physical descripion (black of hair), she's the Old King's daughter, and she's associated with menial work in the forest. Sansa Stark is associated with snow (as a Stark of Winterfell) and dwarves (Tyrion).

Just a thought.

[ServantOnIce]

Here is a candidate for the Younger Queen, what about Arianne Martell???? If Prince Doran dies and with Quentyn dead, she will be the ruler of Dorne and she is obsessed with wiping out all things Lannister. Arianne is younger and more beautiful . . . and it appears Dany may never make it to Westeros and be content to rule Central Essos with the Dothraki and Freedman's Bay . .. .

[Booknerd2]

Anyone think that choke the life out of you can mean poisons?

[ServantOnIce]

Anyone think that choke the life out of you can mean poisons?

Could be . Valar Morghulis . . . . #AryaRevenge

[mcb]

I personally reject every theory that assumes that "the valonqar" could simply be anyone who happens to have an older sibling: Arya, Stannis, Benjen, Sandor, Loras, Theon, Edmure, Wendel Frey and everyone else who wasn't an only/eldest child. It is "the valonqar". And the "obvious" Tyrion would be the biggest surprise for most, judging by this thread.

[slnko-v-siete]

I think Dany is the queen, as Cersei is likely more beautiful than Margery despite the latter's youth. I also think that only Dany can strike at the heart of the Lannister legacy--Casterly Rock. (Politically Margery would not be able to.) "All you hold dear" might also refer to the children and/or Jaime, and although Margery has seen one "Baratheon" dead and married the other, she doesn't seem to have any power over/interaction with Myrcella.

I think the valonqar might be Jaime, based on their estrangement and Tyrion being too obvious. Truth be told, I'm hoping that this aspect of the prophecy is either metaphoric or never comes to pass.

[rmholt]

Anyone think that choke the life out of you can mean poisons?

Of course. But then why would one need to wrap ones handS around the throat?

[rmholt]

I personally reject every theory that assumes that "the valonqar" could simply be anyone who happens to have an older sibling: Arya, Stannis, Benjen, Sandor, Loras, Theon, Edmure, Wendel Frey and everyone else who wasn't an only/eldest child. It is "the valonqar". And the "obvious" Tyrion would be the biggest surprise for most, judging by this thread.

I dont think he would be the biggest surprise. He is kind of the most obvious. So why talk about him <G>.

[rmholt]

Could be . Valar Morghulis . . . . #AryaRevenge

Unless there is Advanced Faceless Man training, beyond what we know of, you arent supposed to off someone for your own reasons or someone you know. I guess she could leave and use her powers not as intended.