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Twists that got you again on a re-read


Seasick Drake

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Re-reading A Feast for Crows and I found this intriguing (The Captain of the Guards chapter, when Doran returns to Sunspear):



Tyene: “Give me your blessing, then, and I shall go.”


Doran hesitated half a heartbeat before placing his hand on his niece’s head. “Be brave, child.”

“Oh, how not? I am his daughter.”

No sooner had she taken her leave than Maester Caleotte hurried to the dais. “My prince, she did not . . . here, let me see your hand.” He examined the palm first, then gently turned it upside down to sniff at the back of the prince’s fingers. “No, good. That is good. There are no scratches, so . . .”


Could it be that her hair is somehow poisoned? Martin only mentions she has blonde hair, no hairpins or anything of the sort.


ETA - sorry if this belongs in another thread; if so, can a mod please move it.

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I think that the point is that Doran (momentarily) and the Maester (for longer) feared that Tyene might somehow manage to poison Doran merely by getting him to touch her head.



It is to underline to us just how dangerous Tyene is, despite her innocent appearance. It does not mean that she actually did try to poison him, or that she is known to poison her hair in particular.

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  • 1 month later...
  • 2 weeks later...

on a side note here: Anyone else suspect that Robert Arryn is actually the bastard son of Lysa and Littlefinger? I mean he is described as small and sickly, which I believe is the way LF himself is described as a boy....

When old Hoster Tully is dying at Riverrun (in ASOS?), he keeps saying "Tansy" and "the blood" to Cat. At first Cat thinks he is talking about a girl, but then she deduces that it was the Tansy-laced "moon tea" that Hoster forced on Lysa after her fling with Littlefinger. So yes, they did make a baby together, but it was aborted via moon-tea, and Hoster apparently never forgave himself.

Then later when Cat is wondering about Lysa's quick betrothal and marriage to Jon Arryn, one of the rataionales for giving Lysa to Jon is because he needed someone "known to be fertile" -- he was getting on in years and the Arryn line was failing.

All that being said - its possible that LF and Lysa kept hooking up and conceived little Robert (and the other miscarriages?) together. Maybe Jon Arryn didn't have good seed himself. It would be a sweet and sad irony considering his dying words were "the seed is strong..."

PS - My first post. Glad to be a part of the action now.

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  • 1 month later...

Going on my 4th re-read now and I just started yesterday. In the very first chapter, after they find the direwolf pups and have ridden halfway across the bridge towards Winterfell, Jon says, "Can't you hear it?" His father says, "Hear what?" and Bran cannot hear anything out of the ordinary. Jon goes back across the bridge and down and comes back with Ghost, saying he must have crawled off, or been driven off. We know that Ghost is mute (except maybe in dreams), so what was Jon hearing? Robb and Jon found the pups; I'm wondering if Jon saw Ghost earlier, but didn't mention him because he thought the 5 pups for 5 Starks argument would have a better chance of swaying his father to let them keep them. He didn't hear anything, he knew ghost was still there. Sneaky devil.


Or it may have just been another early error, like some character's eye colour changing, that is just due to GRRM not having Elio and Linda to keep him straight about what's what yet.


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  • 3 weeks later...

I don't think I ever fully realized just how many times characters narrowly missed running into each other, especially crossing and recrossing and recrossing the riverlands. I even think Arya and Nymeria may have made eye contact, just once, without Arya knowing it was her. But this time I'm noticing descriptions of inns, etc., more than I did the first time and realizing how many times people were at the same inn and narrowly missed each other.



(And oh, Bran & Co narrowly missing Jon at Queenscrown! :crying: And Summer being cause of the wildling party erupting into chaos. That one I caught the first time, but still. :crying: )


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That Varys could be Lysonno Maar... Or at least that Lysonno is in cahoots with Varys/Illyrio, or potentially even Illyrio's child with Serra...



But the conviction that there is some connection there...


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I missed so much on the first read and actually on the second read. I missed that we were introduced to Lord Beric and the red priest Thorus in the tourney. In fact, I missed a lot of the introductions/foreshadowing of characters that we meet in later books (usually when they die). People like the blacksmith of nightwatch, Kira near winterfell, even all the Freys who don't help Caitlyn at the crossroads inn.



One thing I got on this re-read was that during the conversation between Varys and Illario in the dungeons is that they are discussing Illario giving Varys more "little birds". It is clear that they are young children who can read and write and who have their tongues removed. Totally missed that.



Another thing was the descriptions of the hidden passages in Winterfell that Bran knows about from his time on the roofs and how he can go around the entire castle in secret passages. It seems likely that will be important.



I also missed the relationship between Dany and her eggs. Every time she becomes more queen-like, her eggs become hotter. It is clear on re-read that the eggs aren't just hatched in the final scene, but they have been nurtured by her growing powers as a leader. (I also forgot how much I LOVED the first Dany arc from scared girl to khaleesi and then, upon losing everything to a true leader and mother of dragons.-The later arcs are so unsatisfying that I forget how great that part is.)



Finally, when the Dothraki go to the city where her brother gets the golden crown, they discuss how the city has to be large enough that all the the Dothraki can fit there if they ever need to. They mention this hasn't happened in ages, but I bet two donuts that will happen in the next book. GRRM said the Dothraki will feature significantly in that one.


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Re-reading AGoT, and just came across this: in the Ned chapter describing the end of the Hand's Tourney, Littlefinger and Renly place a bet on the joust between The Hound and The Kingslayer. After the Hound unseats Jamie, Renly collects the bet and then says (within earshot of Ned):

"A pity the Imp is not here with us....I should have won twice as much"

...oops! If Ned had only been paying attention to this offhand comment, he may have realized that Littlefinger had lied about losing his dagger to Tyrion. Renly, who lives at court and attends all such events, knows full well that Tyrion would never bet against Jaime.

Well played, GRRM, well played....

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Going on my 4th re-read now and I just started yesterday. In the very first chapter, after they find the direwolf pups and have ridden halfway across the bridge towards Winterfell, Jon says, "Can't you hear it?" His father says, "Hear what?" and Bran cannot hear anything out of the ordinary. Jon goes back across the bridge and down and comes back with Ghost, saying he must have crawled off, or been driven off. We know that Ghost is mute (except maybe in dreams), so what was Jon hearing? Robb and Jon found the pups; I'm wondering if Jon saw Ghost earlier, but didn't mention him because he thought the 5 pups for 5 Starks argument would have a better chance of swaying his father to let them keep them. He didn't hear anything, he knew ghost was still there. Sneaky devil.

Or it may have just been another early error, like some character's eye colour changing, that is just due to GRRM not having Elio and Linda to keep him straight about what's what yet.

There's a theory that Jon might have been the first of the Stark kids to have a warging bond with his wolf. He 'heard' Ghost, a wolf always described as silent in every sense of the word. What's strange is that Jon never reflects on this in later chapters, that's what I find most interesting.

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I also missed the relationship between Dany and her eggs. Every time she becomes more queen-like, her eggs become hotter. It is clear on re-read that the eggs aren't just hatched in the final scene, but they have been nurtured by her growing powers as a leader.

I missed that both times I read the books.

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  • 1 month later...

It's something like my 3rd or 4th re-read, but I've just noticed how conveniently placed Ygritte's story about Bael the Bard is with what's happening with Bran and Rickon at the moment. It struck me a ludicrous that Jon and his comrades have just finished fighting with Ygritte and her mates, they've just taken her prisoner and instead of killing her like Stonesnake suggests, they all sit down while she tells them a bedtime story, but oh well. The story's more relevant than I imagined, not because of Jon, but because of Bran. Bael and the Stark heiress hide in the crypts, and although Jon claims he's never heard the story before, I bet Osha has. I bet Osha suggested they hide in the crypts knowing that Bael and his love interest had done so before.


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Did anyone find it odd when Melisandre was talking about how she changed Mance into Rattleskin and she mentioned that you can use most anything from a person...even a bag of fingerbones!?


That makes me wonder about what she has been doing to Davos or behind his back.


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