583 replies to this topic

[Black Wolf Smith]

I guess I must be on crack or something and need some help.
No I am probley mixing up things from one of the other books 20 or so books since I read aGoT.
I have reread the other four books but didn't think I need to reread that one.

Any way I remember a scene which I thought it was Robert and Ned where The King said something like "You should have been King"
or "It should have been you". If it is aGoT what chapter? If not does anybody no where got that?

[Fire Eater]

Black Wolf Smith, on 23 June 2012 - 12:49 PM, said:

I guess I must be on crack or something and need some help.
No I am probley mixing up things from one of the other books 20 or so books since I read aGoT.
I have reread the other four books but didn't think I need to reread that one.

Any way I remember a scene which I thought it was Robert and Ned where The King said something like "You should have been King"
or "It should have been you". If it is aGoT what chapter? If not does anybody no where got that?

AGoT Eddard VII said:

Robert sat down again. "Damn you, Ned Stark. You and Jon Arryn, I loved you both. What have you done to me? You were the one [who] should have been king, you or Jon."

[King Doug]

Black Wolf Smith, on 23 June 2012 - 12:49 PM, said:

I guess I must be on crack or something and need some help.
No I am probley mixing up things from one of the other books 20 or so books since I read aGoT.
I have reread the other four books but didn't think I need to reread that one.

Any way I remember a scene which I thought it was Robert and Ned where The King said something like "You should have been King"
or "It should have been you". If it is aGoT what chapter? If not does anybody no where got that?

I would argue GoT is the one that should be re-read before any of the other ones. SO MUCH foreshadowing

[Ghost714]

Has a Northman ever served in the Kingsguard?

[Fire Eater]

Ghost714, on 23 June 2012 - 08:50 PM, said:

Has a Northman ever served in the Kingsguard?

Only knights may join the Kingsguard, and most of the North follow the Old Gods instead of the Seven. I think all the knights of the Kingsguard were Southrons.

[rmholt]

Fire Eater, on 23 June 2012 - 09:07 PM, said:

Only knights may join the Kingsguard, and most of the North follow the Old Gods instead of the Seven. I think all the knights of the Kingsguard were Southrons.

Where did you read this?  The Hound was KG and not a knight.  Granted Joffrey was nuts and messed with KG but I never read that they had to be knights.

[Dragonfish]

rmholt, on 23 June 2012 - 11:16 PM, said:

Where did you read this?  The Hound was KG and not a knight.  Granted Joffrey was nuts and messed with KG but I never read that they had to be knights.

Yes, they have to be knights. The Hound's selection was actually controversial for the very reason that Kingsguard members had to be knights.

[Ghost714]

Fire Eater, on 23 June 2012 - 09:07 PM, said:

Only knights may join the Kingsguard, and most of the North follow the Old Gods instead of the Seven. I think all the knights of the Kingsguard were Southrons.

I know being a knight is mostly a Southron thing, but many Northman have become Knights, so I was just wondering. I am pretty sure there is no record of such in the books, but I did not know if maybe there was an SSM saying that it's happened.

[Rinso]

Well, Bran wanted to become a Kingsguard and nobody thought it was an unheard of precedent, so there you are.

The assumption that there are no knights in the North is a common misconception.

[Ghost714]

Rinso, on 24 June 2012 - 04:16 AM, said:

Well, Bran wanted to become a Kingsguard and nobody thought it was an unheard of precedent, so there you are.

The assumption that there are no knights in the North is a common misconception.

Good point, Bran never thinks to him self, "I am going to be the first man from the North ever to be in the Kingsguard". So that very well could indicate that he would not be the first.

[Brienne Tarly]

Rinso, on 24 June 2012 - 04:16 AM, said:

Well, Bran wanted to become a Kingsguard and nobody thought it was an unheard of precedent, so there you are.

The assumption that there are no knights in the North is a common misconception.

I think you're right.

One of the reasons we haven't heard about Northern members of the KG could be that historically, Northern younger sons (= your typical KG material) might have been inclined to join the NW. Closer to home and all that, and service in the NW used to be seen as an honour, too, probably more so in the North who understood the importance of their task.

[bloodymime]

Brienne Tarly, on 24 June 2012 - 11:59 AM, said:

I think you're right.

One of the reasons we haven't heard about Northern members of the KG could be that historically, Northern younger sons (= your typical KG material) might have been inclined to join the NW. Closer to home and all that, and service in the NW used to be seen as an honour, too, probably more so in the North who understood the importance of their task.

I always thought it was more of a sign of the North wanting little to do with the South but that's a good explanation. There are only seven positions on the KG after all and it is for life. With just three hundred years of history it's not that old of a tradition nor have there been that many men in the KG compared to the history of the Wall especially for the North.

[Serie]

question:
On a re-read of AFFC, in the chapter of Maester Aemon's death, it is said for the baby Gilly carries with her to Oldtown (Dalla's son) that they should name him Aemon Battleborn. And then:

"A warrior's name. The boy was Mance Rayder's son and Craster's grandson, after all".

What am I missing here? was Dalla a Craster's daughter???? where is this stated?????

[Teal'c]

It kind of points at that, or that Mance is Craster's son. Or that Craster is the baby's adoptive grandfather, because Gilly is mothering him. The best explanation I have heard is that it's actually a factual error by George. At any rate still an unresolved question for me as well. Any other ideas out there?

[Serie]

Teal, on 24 June 2012 - 01:34 PM, said:

It kind of points at that, or that Mance is Craster's son. Or that Craster is the baby's adoptive grandfather, because Gilly is mothering him. The best explanation I have heard is that it's actually a factual error by George. At any rate still an unresolved question for me as well. Any other ideas out there?

so I thought that the only thing (besides a mistake) that could mean is Gilly being his milk mother. But how could Mance be Craster's son and still not offered to the Others?

Edited by Serie, 24 June 2012 - 01:54 PM.

[kissdbyfire]

Serie, on 24 June 2012 - 01:54 PM, said:

so I thought that the only thing (besides a mistake) that could mean is Gilly being his milk mother. But how could Mance be Craster's son and still not offered to the Others?

A rebellious mother that snatched the baby away before Craster could do anything? He could have been out hunting or something... We have a little info (that may not be reliable) on Mance's father, but I can't remember in which book.

[Serie]

Kyssetafild, on 24 June 2012 - 02:06 PM, said:

A rebellious mother that snatched the baby away before Craster could do anything? He could have been out hunting or something... We have a little info (that may not be reliable) on Mance's father, but I can't remember in which book.

fair enough, I'm just saying so because of the attitude the other women of Craster are described to have. And yes, Mance was a wildling boy, I remember that as well So it may be not a mistake after all.... but then, how is Sam supposed to know that Mance is Craster's son?????

[kissdbyfire]

Serie, on 24 June 2012 - 02:19 PM, said:

So it may be not a mistake after all.... but then, how is Sam supposed to know that Mance is Craster's son?????

I know, right? I think the mistake explanation is the one that makes the most sense. What I suggested before was just an idea to try and explain it, but I don't believe it really. Mostly because of what you said, there's no way Sam would know that, IMO.

[Teal'c]

Serie, on 24 June 2012 - 01:54 PM, said:

so I thought that the only thing (besides a mistake) that could mean is Gilly being his milk mother. But how could Mance be Craster's son and still not offered to the Others?

That would make Mance a mole.

[Teal'c]

Serie, on 24 June 2012 - 02:19 PM, said:

fair enough, I'm just saying so because of the attitude the other women of Craster are described to have. And yes, Mance was a wildling boy, I remember that as well So it may be not a mistake after all.... but then, how is Sam supposed to know that Mance is Craster's son?????

Yes, that's where it falls apart, because Sam would not know.