Note: For the Jaime hardliners Re: his "redemption"
Posted 24 June 2012 - 03:55 PM
Posted 24 June 2012 - 04:10 PM
It is a story of redefinition not redemption.
Posted 24 June 2012 - 04:16 PM
Specifically, if he could return to King's Landing in time to stop Cersei from burning the city, and claim his right as Lord of Casterly Rock in order to surrender to Aegon and prevent another round of bloodshed by sacrificing himself, and possibly his house.
Posted 24 June 2012 - 05:58 PM
I think saving a Targaryen life (thus earning a pardon for his family), taking his children and living somewhere far from KL would be best for him, imo.
Agree on that. But I don1t think he would make outcasts of Tommen and Myrcella. He cares too much for them...
Posted 24 June 2012 - 06:14 PM
Posted 24 June 2012 - 06:17 PM
There were also a few places in the text that made me feel bad for him. When he was telling Brianne to escape inside herself, to just go away, when he expected her to be raped. It's the same advice he gave Tommen at the funeral. It was how he survived seeing so many atrocities.
The other bit was how he wanted to have more children, ones he could claim and hold. That was a rather sad statment to make.
Posted 24 June 2012 - 06:17 PM
Not to derail the thread but can I ask a question about this? Why is it necessarily that Bran is becoming an 'evil' tree...I don't understand that. He's being taught by the children of the forest who defeated the Others in the first place....they might be good people to learn from. I dunno...this just seems totally out of left field the only thing he's done using the trees was see some vision of the past there's nothing evil about that.
Edited by StannisBamfatheon, 24 June 2012 - 06:17 PM.
Posted 24 June 2012 - 06:22 PM
Agree with both of these. One of the things I like really love about the way Jaime is written as a character is that he hasn't undergone a huge "road to Damascus" conversion, through which he immediately repents of all his previous ways, resolves to be good and try to make amends, etc, etc. I haven't seen any of those in RL, and frankly I don't believe in them, as you can't just suddenly live the 'good' life, change your thinking overnight, and put aside all that has gone before. Changing your life is a huge struggle, and is often a case of two steps forward, one step back, so it is only natural that we don't see Jaime going "OMG, I was such a brute to Bran" and so on. Frankly, I don't expect him ever to do that - I think he does / will 'regret' that he hurt a little boy (and he would obviously have preferred it to be death rather than maiming), but he will also recognise that he acted to protect the people he loved, including his own children. He is not going to ever say that protecting his own children was 'wrong'.
Jaime reminds me very much of a person struggling to overcome an addiction, in his case to Cersei. Anyone one who has ever battled to do that in some way will understand the struggles he is going through, and appreciate that he is trying, even if some of the changes in his thinking are almost subconscious. And please: the threat as regards throwing the Tully baby back via trebuchet was exactly that - a threat, made in the full knowledge that people would take the threat seriously precisely because he was 'Jaime the Kingslayer'. If you read on, you see how he does worry that he might have had to carry out the threat, serving his duty to the King (one oath) rather than keeping faith with Catelyn (a later oath, at sword point). That 'too many oaths' speech at the end of Book 2 is a really critical one for understanding Jaime and many of his internal conflicts, as is the scene in the White Tower after he sends Brienne on her way, and he thinks about what he can write in the White Book about himself. He knows it's up to him now, and IMHO, he makes a pretty good start in the rest of ASOS and in AFFC.
Depending on the circumstances, I could see him eventually telling Cersei that his duty to the king does not automatically mean a duty to the king's mother - that would very neatly echo the advice which John Darry gave to him about Aery's brutality to his wife.
Edited by Currawong, 24 June 2012 - 06:36 PM.
Posted 24 June 2012 - 06:32 PM
Posted 24 June 2012 - 06:34 PM
Other than that, I think the issue with him saving Sansa/Arya is that right now, neither of them are in a location or situation where he really makes sense as a part of their story. I think saving Bran would make a lot more sense; however, that depends on your view as to the wisdom of Bran's current lifestyle choice... I personally am against his becoming a tree, but it's sort of ambiguous at this point whether the reader is intended to perceive it as good or bad. I would lean toward good, but the imagery in Bran's last chapter is awfully disturbing and gothic.
Posted 24 June 2012 - 06:34 PM
Posted 24 June 2012 - 06:45 PM
Edited by Currawong, 24 June 2012 - 06:51 PM.
Posted 24 June 2012 - 06:46 PM
Posted 24 June 2012 - 06:47 PM
Posted 24 June 2012 - 06:49 PM
Posted 24 June 2012 - 06:52 PM
Posted 24 June 2012 - 06:54 PM
Posted 24 June 2012 - 06:57 PM
So it's kill or be killed against a 10 year old? nice! Jaime himself says it later "we'll say he was dreaming, we'll say this, say that, say whatever it takes and life we'll go on..." <----not ver batim there you get the idea. If he had just thought it through a little more instead of just giving Bran the heave ho it would have gone better. That scene is told from Bran's POV and he doesn't even know what the hell there doing he thought they were wrestling or something. It was totally unnecesary.
Posted 24 June 2012 - 06:58 PM
You don't have the luxury of time to think, you just DO. It's not as though he had a lot of time to stand there, have a debate with Cersei and Bran about what Bran did or didn't see, and only then decide that killing the kid was safer than trying to 'persuade' him to keep silent. And even if Bran thought they were only 'wrestling', any adult to whom he'd happen to mention it would immediately have drawn the correct inference.
Edited by Currawong, 24 June 2012 - 07:01 PM.
Posted 24 June 2012 - 07:05 PM