401 replies to this topic

[Hereward]

Lummel, on 29 June 2012 - 02:59 AM, said:

Then we are not countrymen sir although I am also London born I'm just not masochistic enough to support England at the football.

Nor me, though it has nothing to do with lack of masochism, I'm an England rugby and cricket fan, after all.

[Masonity]

Hereward, on 29 June 2012 - 03:53 AM, said:

Nor me, though it has nothing to do with lack of masochism, I'm an England rugby and cricket fan, after all.

As much as I don't agree with your choice of sport, I'm pretty sure the cricket team wear the three lions with pride too.

The Rugby doesn't cut it, what with it's silly flower instead.

[Lame Display Name]

Deathwalker, on 28 June 2012 - 01:02 PM, said:

They also fail to address the fact that multiculturalism destroys all cultures.  When different cultures exist side by side, for a long enough period of time, each starts blending some of the other's tings into itself.  Both cultures change and in doing so, lose something they had to begin with.  Ultimately, there will be a homogeneous culture, but there will be strife until that happens.  Most of the time, those who want to preserve the culture they have, are painted as the bad guys

That's not really what tends to happen though. What usually happens is that these cultures existing within the same borders eventually get into conflict with each other, and then either one of them is wiped out or they split up and create new nations. World War one and two in Europe were full of things like these happening (and some might say one of the main causes for the wars), the continent spanning tribal wars going on in sub-saharan Africa as well, together with countless other examples throughout history.

Edited by Blaaargh, 29 June 2012 - 06:07 AM.

[Horza]

Masonity, on 28 June 2012 - 05:06 PM, said:

I responded with "Well, you know, I married a foreigner, so..." only to be told that Norwegian isn't "really foreign". So I have a feeling skin colour may have been involved there.

Related anecdote:

An English guy in one of my classes was doing some ski instructing at Jindabyne during the winter holidays and he caught a lift with a bloke who started complaining about foreigners stealing Aussie jobs. He pointed out that he was one of these but was told "it's not the same."

[paddington]

Masonity, on 28 June 2012 - 05:06 PM, said:

I responded with "Well, you know, I married a foreigner, so..." only to be told that Norwegian isn't "really foreign". So I have a feeling skin colour may have been involved there.

Does he feel the same way about eastern Europeans, as  he feels about Norwegians?

[Pebbles]

Lummel, on 29 June 2012 - 02:59 AM, said:

Then we are not countrymen sir although I am also London born I'm just not masochistic enough to support England at the football.

Spliter!

[Ser Robin Hill]

Masonity, on 28 June 2012 - 05:06 PM, said:

Out of interest, is my wife a dirty invader destroying our culture? She still celebrates her national holidays, our kids speak both languages (although school has made the elder more english speaking), she's not a member of the church of england and would not join it, and watns to bring the kids up in her native culture more than the "english" way.

If you need to ask where she's from before answering, you're both racist, and forgot me mentioning my Norwegian wife earlier.

Sorry, but that is a bogus argument.  Multiply your wife by many thousands and put them in communities where the culture of your country is despised.  Then, you have a problem.

BTW, I would have to agree that anyone who refers to any group as scum or bastards, is probably a racist.  But, what do you call people who object to having people ind their midst that despise everything about their country?

Blaaargh, on 29 June 2012 - 05:54 AM, said:

That's not really what tends to happen though. What usually happens is that these cultures existing within the same borders eventually get into conflict with each other, and then either one of them is wiped out or they split up and create new nations. World War one and two in Europe were full of things like these happening (and some might say one of the main causes for the wars), the continent spanning tribal wars going on in sub-saharan Africa as well, together with countless other examples throughout history.

There is no question that kludging countries together from disparate cultures, is almost always bound to fail.  Instead, we import disparate cultures and then wonder why there is strife.  The problem is that wars are now fought within borders, instead of across them.

[Dracarya]

Nobody said 'dirty invader', and it's stuff like this that pisses me off a bit. It's like no one in this country can moan about anything remotely to do with this subject without being labelled a racist bastard. There is a problem with immigration; there are not enough jobs, benefits or houses to go around. Why does one's concern for British* people over immigrants instantly make them a cunt? That said, someone marrying a foreigner is hardly an issue for anyone, and doesn't even really come into it. So what if you bring your children up to speak two languages and celebrate the two cultures? Good for them, sounds brilliant actually. That doesn't affect me in any way, shape or form. But someone, be it someone from the Muslim religion or the Catholic religion, calling me a whore, and someone coming over to England to simply live off benefits and get a free house, does affect me. The latter might not affect me directly, but it's affecting my country. If you wish to move to a country to work and live and marry and raise a family, what's the problem? And the vast majority of people do just that. But it's when people do not fit in, when they make a conscious effort to insult and rebel** against the country in which they live, is when problems begin.

*My definition would be anyone born here, or someone who has lived here for the majority of their lives and wants to class themselves as British, or have a dual nationality. Regardless of skin colour, religion, etc. Just to be clear.

**And again to be clear, by this I mean the extremists, who, among other things, think it's fine and dandy to ignore the laws of the land, treat women as lesser beings and abuse people in the street for no reason other than their skin colour. I call that racism, don't you?

Edited by Dracarya, 29 June 2012 - 09:17 AM.

[Derfel Cadarn]

The vast majority of immigrants in the uk dont despise our culture, only a vocal minority, given further publicity by racists trying to tar everyone of that religion/colour etc with the same brush to justify their prejudice.

There's no such thing as 'our culture' , it changes from decade to decade.  In the fifties racism, sexism and homophobia weren't seen as bad things.   60 years ago obama wouldn't have been allowed to sit in the front of a bus, now he can become president.

[Dracarya]

I hope that wasn't in reply to me, because if so, you did not get what I was saying at all.

[ljkeane]

Derfel Cadarn, on 29 June 2012 - 09:25 AM, said:

The vast majority of immigrants in the uk dont despise our culture, only a vocal minority, given further publicity by racists trying to tar everyone of that religion/colour etc with the same brush to justify their prejudice.

Indeed, I can't say I've ever met one of these Muslims that are apparently on the verge of imposing Sharia law in the UK. Come to think of it though I do know a couple of Muslims who have an orange juice instead of a beer after playing cricket, shocking disregard for the local customs.

[Ser Robin Hill]

Have you met many Muslims who decry the issuing of fatwas authorizing the killing of authors and cartoonists?  We keep talking about extremists and how the "mainstream" doesn't support such things.  There is a legal precept.  "Qui tacet consentit", silence implies consent.  If the mainstream does nothing to oppose such things, I have to assume it supports them.

Edited by Deathwalker, 29 June 2012 - 09:52 AM.

[ljkeane]

Deathwalker, on 29 June 2012 - 09:52 AM, said:

Have you met many Muslims who decry the issuing of fatwas authorizing the killing of authors and cartoonists?  We keep talking about extremists and how the "mainstream" doesn't support such things.  There is a legal precept.  "Qui tacet consentit", silence implies consent.  If the mainstream does nothing to oppose such things, I have to assume it supports them.

I haven't met any Americans who have explicitly told me they oppose the issuing of fatwas against authors and cartoonists either so I should probably assume that Americans support them as well.

Edited by ljkeane, 29 June 2012 - 09:59 AM.

[Hereward]

Why is it that every time we have a thread or discussion about the malign influence and/or future supremacy of Muslims in the UK, it's Americans who are worried about it and never someone British?

[Ser Robin Hill]

Because we are concerned for our British brethren?

[Hereward]

Or woefully misinformed.

[RWHamel]

Hereward, on 29 June 2012 - 10:10 AM, said:

Or woefully misinformed.

We're the ultimate nanny state. Now take you medicine like a good little slave.

[Ser Robin Hill]

Hereward, on 29 June 2012 - 10:10 AM, said:

Or woefully misinformed.

Oh dear, no one is going to like this, but honesty is a virtue, or so I've been told.  When I was growing up, I loved "English Movies" as they used to be called.  True, the characters were somewhat stereotypical.  the men had the stiff upper lip and doing honorable things.  the women were always quite proper.  And, no matter what the story line was, there was always a sense of order.  Today, when I see a movie from the UK, no one looks English, no one sounds English and no one acts English.  Worse, there is no sense of order, just chaos.  Now, either those who produce movies in the UK have either decided they hate the English, or the society and culture have changed drastically.  I realize movies aren't reality, but they do reflect the culture that produced them.

The US, because of the almost constant addition of other cultures, has never really had a chance to develop a real culture of its own.  It has always been a moving target and we are the worse for it.

Oh yes...you're changing the name of Big Ben?!?!?!?!?  Is nothing sacred anymore?

[Dracarya]

I believe they are just changing the name of the tower that houses the Big Ben from Clock Tower to Elizabeth Tower. Victoria has one too. They're to honour two monarchs whose arses both polished our British throne for 60 years. I have no problem with it, mainly because we call the whole thing Big Ben anyway.

Edited by Dracarya, 29 June 2012 - 11:01 AM.

[Lummel]

Hereward, on 29 June 2012 - 10:04 AM, said:

Why is it that every time we have a thread or discussion about the malign influence and/or future supremacy of Muslims in the UK, it's Americans who are worried about it and never someone British?

It can only be that there superior perspective afforded by the Atlantic ocean allows them to be better informed than us.