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Why do certain people think Jon snow


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Wow thats a lot of theories . I had to stop reading though as there seemed to be a few spoilers from futher on in the book's, So I don't know wether it has been asked before but if Jon, Arya and Bran, have all had theese warg dreams and then the actual skin changing, I assumed that was something that was in their blood or is it just because they have got Direwolves they can do this.

But then bran enters Hodor and he's not a wolf or is it all just a big coincedence.

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from ASOS I know I read somehow at the end that a good warg can slip into everything he/she wants and since bran can't walk and stand on his own etc. I think to be the strongest warg is on him and it is on him to learn how to use this rightly

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But how do people become wargs is it in their DNA or is it something else, Because if it's in their blood dosen't that kinda write off him being Targaryen and sort of strengthen the fact that hes a Stark.

He has both bloods, as R+L=J. And being a warg is associated with blood (DNA), but it might have something to do with the Others or magic, as it was awakened in the Stark children (except Sansa maybe) the same time these came around and it wasn't present in their father's generation.

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You have to remember too that they have the blood of the First men in them. And there is also stories of some of the first men mixing with the children of the forest it could be that Jon, Bran and Arya have some of the children of the forest blood in them as well giving the warg abilities.

If I remember right in one of the books they talk about one of Old Nans stories saying that the Children of the Forest were often wargs, and if I am not wrong Jojens green sight was also an ablitiy of the Children.

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This is where it seems to me that GRRM has a massive twist in store for us. Even with the massive amount of 'proof' and 'theories' pointing to LRJ, it seems like his Stark blood is really taken dominance. He is a warg and looks exactly like a Stark. We also know that Stark blood doesn't always take prominence too. The other Stark children look far more Tully than Stark. As far as I know, Targaryens always look Targaryen.

Thoughts on that anyone?

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Oh and per one of the OPs questions; warging is in their blood. It is something that can be trained to strengthen, but not to learn. You are born with it or not, as 'told' by a character in the north, forget who.

It is not clear whether or not having a firewood strengthens that, but I imagine it does, at least makes it easier.

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He has both bloods, as R+L=J. And being a warg is associated with blood (DNA), but it might have something to do with the Others or magic, as it was awakened in the Stark children (except Sansa maybe) the same time these came around and it wasn't present in their father's generation.

If you noticed, the warg tendencies seemed to be much more prominent in those children who have more of the Stark physical traits. Robb and Sansa, who took after more of the Tully side, didn't seem to be quite so strong in this sense. Granted, we don't know if this is entirely true as 1. We were never given a POV from Robb. and 2. Sansa's wolf was killed very early on. So, in the end, this theory could be completely false.

This is where it seems to me that GRRM has a massive twist in store for us. Even with the massive amount of 'proof' and 'theories' pointing to LRJ, it seems like his Stark blood is really taken dominance. He is a warg and looks exactly like a Stark. We also know that Stark blood doesn't always take prominence too. The other Stark children look far more Tully than Stark. As far as I know, Targaryens always look Targaryen.

Thoughts on that anyone?

Targaryens always looked Targaryen because they always mated with Targaryens............ However, just because the Tully came out in a couple of the Stark children, it doesn't mean that it always overpowered the Stark traits. That being said, if you notice they rarely ever discuss what a Targaryen child looked like after they had been with someone outside of their family... just a thought...

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Targaryens always looked Targaryen because they always mated with Targaryens............ However, just because the Tully came out in a couple of the Stark children, it doesn't mean that it always overpowered the Stark traits. That being said, if you notice they rarely ever discuss what a Targaryen child looked like after they had been with someone outside of their family... just a thought...

Well there have been Targaryen bastards and Rhaegar had Aegon and Danaerys with Elia Martell and they couldn't look more Targaryen. It's not much to go off on but just a thought. Same with with Stark/Tully. I don't thin we really have any other accounts of Stark's who had children with non Stark's, and what the children looked like.

Idk what I'm even talking about anymore.

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Well there have been Targaryen bastards and Rhaegar had Aegon and Danaerys with Elia Martell and they couldn't look more Targaryen. It's not much to go off on but just a thought. Same with with Stark/Tully. I don't thin we really have any other accounts of Stark's who had children with non Stark's, and what the children looked like.

Idk what I'm even talking about anymore.

Rhaegar was Daenerys' brother, not father. Rhaegar and Elia had Aegon and Rhaenys, and IIRC, the latter is described as looking like her mother, not her father.

And it should be pointed out that the Targaryen 'looks' aren't limited to Targaryens - the colouring is also used to describe non-Targaryens as well, though from where exactly these people come from has slipped my mind.

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Well there have been Targaryen bastards and Rhaegar had Aegon and Danaerys with Elia Martell and they couldn't look more Targaryen. It's not much to go off on but just a thought. Same with with Stark/Tully. I don't thin we really have any other accounts of Stark's who had children with non Stark's, and what the children looked like.

Idk what I'm even talking about anymore.

Yes, but that's the thing. We don't know whose traits would come out. However, it would have been that Targaryen + Stark could've done the same as Stark + Tully. The Stark kids, a couple look more Tully and the rest more Stark. It's a possibility that if this was the case it could have just been sheer luck that the Stark would show more than the Targaryen...

Rhaegar was Daenerys' brother, not father. Rhaegar and Elia had Aegon and Rhaenys, and IIRC, the latter is described as looking like her mother, not her father.

And it should be pointed out that the Targaryen 'looks' aren't limited to Targaryens - the colouring is also used to describe non-Targaryens as well, though from where exactly these people come from has slipped my mind.

This is completely true, it's only that all the Targaryens tended to have those particular traits. The hair, the eyes, and such, but yes others did/do have certain traits. I can't remember which ones either at the moment, but I know what you mean, and I know I've read of a couple.

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This is completely true, it's only that all the Targaryens tended to have those particular traits. The hair, the eyes, and such, but yes others did/do have certain traits. I can't remember which ones either at the moment, but I know what you mean, and I know I've read of a couple.

I want to say Lyseni. From the wiki:

The people of Lys curl and perfume their hair. Blue eyes are common among the Lyseni. According to semi-canon sources blonde hair is a common trait among those native to Lys. Many Lysene have white-blond hair and smooth fair skin, as the blood of the old Freehold still runs strong there.

It seems to me that the 'blood of old Valyria' is the common denominator here. I'm not sure if the purple eyes are Targaryen traits only, but I don't think they are, and the point remains the same - the Targaryens all had the 'Targaryen' looks (white-blonde hair, purple eyes) because they married brother to sister, so there were no other genes to take over. This is demonstrated with Rhaenys, who took after her Dornish mother, and maybe some other Targaryens, and Jon Snow if it indeed turns out that R+L=J.

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I want to say Lyseni. From the wiki:

It seems to me that the 'blood of old Valyria' is the common denominator here. I'm not sure if the purple eyes are Targaryen traits only, but I don't think they are, and the point remains the same - the Targaryens all had the 'Targaryen' looks (white-blonde hair, purple eyes) because they married brother to sister, so there were no other genes to take over. This is demonstrated with Rhaenys, who took after her Dornish mother, and maybe some other Targaryens, and Jon Snow if it indeed turns out that R+L=J.

Awesome! So glad that you found examples. It makes so much more sense that the look comes from the "blood of old Valyria." The Targaryens had been ruling for years and years, it's only right that they would come from that old blood. It's just not a common look in Westeros. I just read something in ADwD too, about a character who also had a trait of this, but as that's a different book, I won't mention it, but it all makes sense. Still curious to see if the R + L = J theory is true.

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Rhaegar was Daenerys' brother, not father. Rhaegar and Elia had Aegon and Rhaenys, and IIRC, the latter is described as looking like her mother, not her father.

Woops yeah sorry. Obviously I know this but I had a mental lapse there while writing. I don't remember what was said about Rhaenys.

And it should be pointed out that the Targaryen 'looks' aren't limited to Targaryens - the colouring is also used to describe non-Targaryens as well, though from where exactly these people come from has slipped my mind.

Well, I believe the Daynes are said to have similar looks to the Targaryens. Darkstar is a good example of that, even Edric Dayne. Ashara Daye also had 'haunting violet eyes.' Also, it seems like random people pop up who have the silvery hair and some shade of purple eyes. Even Cersei's Admiral bastard Aurane Waters has silver-gold hair and reminds Cersei of Rhaegar. House Velaryon is said to have silver hair and purple eyes and the blood of old Valyria (Aurane Waters is of House Velaryon). I'm sure there are other Targaryen lookalikes who have the "Blood of Old Valyria."

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Woops yeah sorry. Obviously I know this but I had a mental lapse there while writing. I don't remember what was said about Rhaenys.

Well, I believe the Daynes are said to have similar looks to the Targaryens. Darkstar is a good example of that, even Edric Dayne. Ashara Daye also had 'haunting violet eyes.' Also, it seems like random people pop up who have the silvery hair and some shade of purple eyes. Even Cersei's Admiral bastard Aurane Waters has silver-gold hair and reminds Cersei of Rhaegar. House Velaryon is said to have silver hair and purple eyes and the blood of old Valyria (Aurane Waters is of House Velaryon). I'm sure there are other Targaryen lookalikes who have the "Blood of Old Valyria."

Very true, I'd forgotten about him.

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Woops yeah sorry. Obviously I know this but I had a mental lapse there while writing. I don't remember what was said about Rhaenys.

Well, I believe the Daynes are said to have similar looks to the Targaryens. Darkstar is a good example of that, even Edric Dayne. Ashara Daye also had 'haunting violet eyes.' Also, it seems like random people pop up who have the silvery hair and some shade of purple eyes. Even Cersei's Admiral bastard Aurane Waters has silver-gold hair and reminds Cersei of Rhaegar. House Velaryon is said to have silver hair and purple eyes and the blood of old Valyria (Aurane Waters is of House Velaryon). I'm sure there are other Targaryen lookalikes who have the "Blood of Old Valyria."

I'm guessing House Velaryon is somehow associated with a play on "Valyria" therefore making complete sense again as to why they have that look. It makes a ton more sense though that those who have ties to old Valyria have the same physical traits.Aurane Waters, I don't think they mention who his family is, but it could be anyone, so that still fits in with that... general look. ;)

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summerghostofnymeria-

I don't remember where it is mentioned in the books, but I got the information the Aurane was of House Velaryon in the wiki when I looked him up. Check out House Velaryon on the wiki and you can see some info about them being an ancient house with ties to old Valyria. Don't worry, no spoilers there as long as you have finished AFFC.

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