168 replies to this topic

[Angel_gon]

I refer to statements that have been made within the story by characters that you tend to question or disagree with the most. Like what are some things that you could use some more validation on. Ignore all the speculation and theories made by fans because at the end of the day, those are just wild guess like Jon's parentage.
A few examples of "facts" that have truth behind them are:

-Robert as a skilled warrior and leader, but horrible king:
We know he won the war and could rally men behind his cause and he even made friends out of his enemies. You have to be likable and charming to rally half the realm to your cause and cause a rebellion. But as a king, he was terrible and preferred to drink and whore around

Tywin as a ruthless, cold, calculating man:
-through the story, we get little bits of info into how cold Tywin is and all his actions verify that. He orchastrated the Red Wedding, set up Tyrions "marriage," he shut down houses that got out of line, and betrayed the king, sacked kings landing and butchered the royal family.

Barristan regarded as a great man
-he earned his nickname as bold by rescuing the king at duskendale and I think he won some tournament a like 13. He was respected by both the kings he served and was even pardoned by Robert for his loyalty and heart.

For me, the one thing that I question is the greatness of Arthur Dayne. I know it's a small part of the overall story but he is regarded as the greatest swordsman to like have ever walked. Both Ned and Jaime have great words to say about him and maybe that's all the validation that Arthur Dayne needs, but what did he actually do? Did he win some tournament or am I missing something? If the honorable and likable Ned thought highly of Arthur Dayne, should the audience as well? Did he see something and was wowed by Dayne at their encounter at the Tower of Joy? But what does that say about those involved that Dayne would have killed Ned if it wasn't for everyone's favorite little man, Howland Reed? Surely Dayne could have handled Ned and Howland, unless some thing interesting happened. Here's looking at you Howland......

[Neo]

That the Others are 'evil'.

[RoamingRonin]

Joffery hired the assassin to kill Bran.

[chrisdaw]

Jaime's, Ned's and Barristan's word regarding a knight's skill with arms is about as good an indication as you're likely to get.

The fact I question is that it was poisoned wine which killed Joff, or if it was the wine I question that the poison originated from Sansa's hairnet.

[danm_999]

Who sent Mandon Moore?

Tyrion thinks it's Cersei. I think it's Littlefinger, but there's almost nothing actually telling us who it really was.

[Ramsay Bolsnow]

That Roose is resigned and okay with Ramsay becoming his heir, all because he said so to Ramsay's pet gimp.

Bollocks he is.

[The Last Direwolf]

That the Long Night ended thousands of years ago. I would say that without dragons it would be impossible to do something about the Others, meaning that the end of the Others dominion might only have happened a thousand years ago with the rise of the Dragonlords and the Valyrian Empire. Of course, we only know that the Long Night ended so long ago through the Maesters, and they are not the most dragon friendly organisation in Westeros, methinks...

[Pellaeon]

-Varys is a eunuch
-Rhaego is dead

I doubt both

Edited by Pellaeon, 30 June 2012 - 01:27 PM.

[Alexander Stark]

That nobody goes that far East (Asshai & Beyond)
Euron has done it, Dany will do it

[King of Grumpkins]

Moat Caitlin cannot be taken from the South.

[chrisdaw]

Heh and the Eyrie is impregnable.

[Sevumar]

That's there's anything inherently special about the Targaryens, other than the fact that some of them have had dragons at their disposal.

[Artos Stark]

I'm sure Dayne has won plenty of tourney's.  But winning a tourney doesn't make you great.  The fact that Jaime, Ned and Barristan hold Dayne in the absolute highest regard is enough for me.  They all seem to think that he was one of the best ever, they all saw him in live action.

[Anvilbreaker]

Pellaeon, on 30 June 2012 - 12:52 PM, said:

-Varys is a eunuch
-Raego is dead

I doubt both

seconded
also, I have my doubts that winter is in fact "coming"

[The Last Direwolf]

Anvilbreaker, on 30 June 2012 - 01:21 PM, said:

seconded
also, I have my doubts that winter is in fact "coming"

Erm, yeah. It's arrived mate!

[Winter's Knight]

That Cersei ordered the slaughter of Robert's bastards.

[Natalie_S]

That the Lannisters are super rich and they always pay their debts.
I think there will be a point in which Tyrion opens the vaults of Casterly Rock and... surprise!
He won't pay the Second Sons in the end.
There's just too much stress on debts in ADWD (influences of the economical crisis or foreshadowing?).

[Braavosi Sealady]

Angel_gon, on 30 June 2012 - 12:37 PM, said:

For me, the one thing that I question is the greatness of Arthur Dayne. I know it's a small part of the overall story but he is regarded as the greatest swordsman to like have ever walked. Both Ned and Jaime have great words to say about him and maybe that's all the validation that Arthur Dayne needs, but what did he actually do? Did he win some tournament or am I missing something?

One of Arthur Dayne's most famous doings is being in the group that defeated the Kingswood Brotherwood, a group of outlaws that caused great trouble during Aerys reign. The outlaws were protected by the smalfolk and it was Arthur Dayne that brought them to their side when he asked the Mad King to give better rights for the smallfolk and made sure the royal forces paid for any items they took from the smallfolk. He also defeated in single combat a infamous outlaw from the brotherwood, the Smiling Knight (Jaime called him the Gregor Cleagane of his generation).

[BOT] Facts that I question:

The Others are truly evil
That only Ned and Howland survived the fight at the ToJ

[Black Wolf Smith]

Angel_gon, on 30 June 2012 - 12:37 PM, said:

Tywin as a ruthless, cold, calculating man:
-through the story, we get little bits of info into how cold Tywin is and all his actions verify that. He orchastrated the Red Wedding, set up Tyrions "marriage," he shut down houses that got out of line, and betrayed the king, sacked kings landing and butchered the royal family.

B

IMO Tywin didn't orchastrated the RW, The Freys did. They sent note, hey if we kill Rob can we come back, and what will you reward us? kind of thing. At least some of the Frey's were making noise before the find out about R/J. Not that Tywin did not play a part in it.

IDK what big facts I question, but lots of little ones.

IMO LF is the answer to a lot of questions, why moore try to kill Tyrion? why Joff have Ned killed? Why is the kingdon bankrupt?
How did Ser Hugh get new armor? ect.

[nothatso]

That Maester Aemon is a near-infallible source of wisdom and truth. Characters and readers alike seem to often buy into this, I don't. He lectures Jon on how he kept to his vows because he's a Maester and Watchman, and yet in the end all he voices is regret for not going to Daenerys. He strikes me as a rather cowardly person in general, refusing to sit on the small council because he didn't want to upset the Grand Maester, etc.