79 replies to this topic

[YNGWLF]

It could have been Varys? or anyone else on the small council. Could have been Jamie because he was a member of the KG but I think Ned would recall being told by Jamie in one of his POV chapters, or vice versa.

Also, The only thing that keeps me from fully believing that Rhaegar and Lyanna were in love is the fact that there was a battle at all at the TOJ. It seems like the KG would just let Ned speak with Lyanna and hear the story from her. The KG are supposed to protect the royal family from harm, and it's not like Ned was there to harm her.

Why did the KG want to keep Ned away from Lyanna so bad?

[Braavosi Sealady]

Ned was one of the leaders of a rebellion that brought death to their King, his heir and slayed Rhaegar's two little children. If R+L=J is true and if Jon is legitimate, probably they're protecting their baby King from a rebellious leader. It didn't matter if he was Lyanna's brother, at the eyes of a KG knight protecting the royal family during war, he was dangerous...

I've no idea who told Ned about the ToJ. If I'm not missing something, we only know that after the Trident he quickly went to King's Landing, then he went to Storm's End to end the siege and only then he and his companions went to the ToJ...

[Jolene Brown]

Now I'm curious - is there anything to indicate one way or another whether Jaime knew where Dayne, Hightower, and Whent were?  He mentions that Rhaegar returned from the South after the Battle of the Bells, but did he know where Rhaegar was specifically?

[Ciglon]

It may very well have been anyone in court, Varys included, considering that by the time of the Sack of King's Landing everyone had pretty much either declared for Robert or perished.

[Apple Martini]

I think it had to have been Ashara. I don't think Varys knew dick about it or he'd've acted on it in some perceptible way by now. And I don't think Jaime or Barristan knew anything either.

Edited by Apple Martini, 30 June 2012 - 07:15 PM.

[Grimwolfe]

Barristan might have? he and Ned were at KL together before he left for storms end, and they both respected each other, and seeing as Barristan was no longer KG to the targs, he would no longer be obliged to keep their secrets, or Rhaegars

[Gerold_Hightower]

Aerys is informed (I don't remember how) that Dayne and Lyanna are at the TOJ.
He sends Hightower and Whent, while others were present. (the rest of the KG)
So it could have been Jamie, Ser Baristan, or the Magister at the time that informed Ned.

Edited by Gerold_Hightower, 01 July 2012 - 04:50 AM.

[Gar Weg Wun Sygerrik]

Suppose it's a stretch but Sir Howland Reed's son was contacted by Blood Raven as a young child. Maybe Sir Howland Reed had contact with Blood Raven in the past. Blood Raven could have followed R+L anywhere with the help of crows of sparrows or what have you. Adds some credance to the fact that Sir Howland Reed was willing to let his kids head to Winterfel with no attendants because of visions Jojen saw.

Edited by Gar Weg Wun Sygerrik, 01 July 2012 - 05:01 AM.

[Ice Turtle]

I agree that the main suspect is Ashara. The only other people that could have known anything are Doran and Oberyn.

[danm_999]

Apple Martini, on 30 June 2012 - 07:14 PM, said:

I think it had to have been Ashara. I don't think Varys knew dick about it or he'd've acted on it in some perceptible way by now. And I don't think Jaime or Barristan knew anything either.

I also think Varys would have told Aerys, who was quite adamant about keeping Rhaegar's 'assets' close to him.

[gougef]

Apple Martini, on 30 June 2012 - 07:14 PM, said:

I think it had to have been Ashara. I don't think Varys knew dick about it or he'd've acted on it in some perceptible way by now. And I don't think Jaime or Barristan knew anything either.

Might be the reason she killed herself because she caused the death of Arthur.

[nQthing]

Jojen :x

[The Red Hand]

Braavosi Sealady, on 30 June 2012 - 06:26 PM, said:

I've no idea who told Ned about the ToJ. If I'm not missing something, we only know that after the Trident he quickly went to King's Landing, then he went to Storm's End to end the siege and only then he and his companions went to the ToJ...

I I don't think Ned would lift a siege while he knew Lyannas location. It your timeline is correct then we can assume someone at Storm's End told him. Davos, Stannis maybe?

[Braavosi Sealady]

The timeline is correct. In the talk with the KG at the ToJ, Ned says that he except them to be with the forces doing the siege at Storm's End:

Quote

“When King's Landing fell, Ser Jaime slew your king with a golden sword, and I wondered where you were.”
“Far away,” Ser Gerold said, “or Aerys would yet sit the Iron Throne, and our false brother would burn in seven hells.”
“I came down on Storm's End to lift the siege,” Ned told them, and the Lords Tyrell and Redwyne dipped their banners, and all their knights bent the knee to pledge us fealty. I was certain you would be among them.”

So, Ned went to lift the siege at Storm's End and only then when to the ToJ. I doubt that it was Stannis or Davos, I don't think they knew where Lyanna was. I'm inclined to be with the ones that say that it was Ashara...

Edited by Braavosi Sealady, 01 July 2012 - 06:30 AM.

[Neo]

I've always thought it was Ashara.  She is likely to have known Lyanna's whereabouts as Arthur Dayne could have informed her, especially if he took Wylla from Starfall to the ToJ to be Lyanna's midwife.

[Mladen]

YNGWLF, on 30 June 2012 - 06:14 PM, said:

It could have been Varys? or anyone else on the small council. Could have been Jamie because he was a member of the KG but I think Ned would recall being told by Jamie in one of his POV chapters, or vice versa.

Also, The only thing that keeps me from fully believing that Rhaegar and Lyanna were in love is the fact that there was a battle at all at the TOJ. It seems like the KG would just let Ned speak with Lyanna and hear the story from her. The KG are supposed to protect the royal family from harm, and it's not like Ned was there to harm her.

Why did the KG want to keep Ned away from Lyanna so bad?

Since they certainly knew what hapenned in KL, I can`t see them allowing Ned to see Lyanna. They would have fought with him(what they did at the end). For them, he was a rebel, on the same side of those who butchered Elia and Rhaenys. And Lyanna became part of that lunatic family. Who told Ned where to look Lyanna? Possibly Varys(to ensure his status), or Barristan, who might have thought it was a good thing to be done.

[Apple Martini]

Mladen, on 01 July 2012 - 09:28 AM, said:

Possibly Varys(to ensure his status), or Barristan, who might have thought it was a good thing to be done.

You assume that Varys or Barristan knew where Lyanna was. I see no evidence that they did.

If you look at possible suspects and narrow it down, Ashara is the only one who makes sense, who could plausibly know. Ned couldn't have known where she was before he did, or else he'd've gone to her. He didn't know where she was until he was told, and only then did he go to the Tower. The fact that this happened after the Sack and after the Storm's End siege was lifted suggests that someone — again, it pretty much has to be Ashara or some as-yet-unknown person — saw the fight for the Targs was lost (or knew Lyanna was dying) and sent him word.

[Maxpey]

Apple Martini, on 01 July 2012 - 09:56 AM, said:

You assume that Varys or Barristan knew where Lyanna was. I see no evidence that they did.

If you look at possible suspects and narrow it down, Ashara is the only one who makes sense, who could plausibly know. Ned couldn't have known where she was before he did, or else he'd've gone to her. He didn't know where she was until he was told, and only then did he go to the Tower. The fact that this happened after the Sack and after the Storm's End siege was lifted suggests that someone — again, it pretty much has to be Ashara or some as-yet-unknown person — saw the fight for the Targs was lost (or knew Lyanna was dying) and sent him word.

I agree completely.  The clues GRRM has provided appear to point towards Ashara much more than any other person.  She is the only character that I can think of that has a direct connection to both a member of KG who was present at the TOJ and Ned.  It will be interesting to see how exactly Ned found out that Lyanna was at the TOJ.

Edited by Maxpey, 01 July 2012 - 10:20 AM.

[LordDolorousEdd]

maybe the tyrells told him when he broke there siege, they were given a pardon maybe thats part of the reason they were.

[Mladen]

Apple Martini, on 01 July 2012 - 09:56 AM, said:

You assume that Varys or Barristan knew where Lyanna was. I see no evidence that they did.

If you look at possible suspects and narrow it down, Ashara is the only one who makes sense, who could plausibly know. Ned couldn't have known where she was before he did, or else he'd've gone to her. He didn't know where she was until he was told, and only then did he go to the Tower. The fact that this happened after the Sack and after the Storm's End siege was lifted suggests that someone — again, it pretty much has to be Ashara or some as-yet-unknown person — saw the fight for the Targs was lost (or knew Lyanna was dying) and sent him word.

You are completely right about Varys and Barristan. I also thought it`s Ashara(but if Ashara is Septa Lemore, than she would be gone from KL, when Ned came there). Also, you are right about timeline when Ned found out where Lyanna was. The best option is Ashara, yes, but it`s a little bit tricky to fully understand what really hapenned in KL with Ashara.