76 replies to this topic

[Beric Zoolander]

I absolutely think Shae loved Tyrion (it sounds like I'm in the minority here) or at least genuinely cared for him.  I also think he felt the same way, he had feelings and cared for her well-being whether thats love or not...wel...

I also think she was a creature of circumstance and was weak not by choice but because of her status, thus any time we saw her going against him...well it doesn't me she didn't love him.

You also have to remember she was just a child, and Tyrion reminds himself of that often.  But I think her feelings were there, maybe thats a result of me watching the show first and then reading all the books.

Edited by Beric Zoolander, 28 February 2013 - 03:04 PM.

[Castellan]

I think book Shae didn't love him and that's not so bad. She is an uncomplicated girl from the small folk, and she is not a whore, she is a kept woman, more or less his girlfriend, and seems able to feel some affection for him and not to be repulsed by his dwarfism. But when it comes down to him or her life or him or a better offer she's going with survival.

[Lummel]

Castellan, on 04 March 2013 - 04:54 AM, said:

I think book Shae didn't love him and that's not so bad. She is an uncomplicated girl from the small folk, and she is not a whore, she is a kept woman, more or less his girlfriend, and seems able to feel some affection for him and not to be repulsed by his dwarfism. But when it comes down to him or her life or him or a better offer she's going with survival.

no she's a prostitute and quite clear about that referring to herself as a whore twice in Tyrion X ACOK.

When she recognises Varys in disguise Tyrion says to her:

Quote

"Most men would be deceived."
"And most women, maybe.  But not whores.  A whore learns to see the man, not his garb, or she turns up dead in an alley."
Varys looked pained...

a page or so on she describes herself as "The Hand's whore" although she says that she wants to be, or could be his lady.  Clearly though at time of ACOK she identifies herself as a prostitute.

[Lady Seaworth]

Castellan, on 04 March 2013 - 04:54 AM, said:

I think book Shae didn't love him and that's not so bad. She is an uncomplicated girl from the small folk, and she is not a whore, she is a kept woman, more or less his girlfriend, and seems able to feel some affection for him and not to be repulsed by his dwarfism. But when it comes down to him or her life or him or a better offer she's going with survival.

I'm not sure how you reach the conclusion that she's not a whore. Just because he's paying her for a long-term exclusive relationship doesn't mean that she's any less a prostitute. Shae would not be with Tyrion if he wasn't paying her. I think her response to his suggestion that she become a scullery maid is evidence enough that she's just after the material goods and comfortable lifestyle of a noble in the city.

Edit: here I'm trying to make the point that the initial agreement was that she would be his lover for money, which technically makes her whichever terminology you want to use for a "paid-for lover". If that wasn't the initial arrangement, and Shae was just wooing him deceptively for his wealth (with Tyrion unawares), I wouldn't call it prostitution - rather, she would just be dating someone for their money. But Tyrion is perfectly aware of the circumstances of their relationship.

Also, I don't think her lack of outward repulsion for his dwarfism proves any affection for him. Shae doesn't seem to be in a position to pick and choose her clients, and I doubt she'd get much business if she did actively show distaste for customers' appearances. On top of that, even if she is attracted to Tyrion, that doesn't mean she loves him, since sexual attraction =/= love.

Edited by Lady Seaworth, 04 March 2013 - 05:29 AM.

[Cas Stark]

I never saw any evidence from the books that Shae had any love for Tyrion.  I'm not sure why they made her character so very different in the TV show.  She's good at her job, which is to be Tyrion's paid lover, that he deludes himself that they are having a "real" relationship when she was literally taken out of some other guy's bed by Bronn shows his one blind spot, his deep desire to be loved for himself, despite his physical appearance.  It's also probably true that he has not previously had any type of long term situation similar to the Shae arrangement.

[Sheogorath]

BIG SILLY QUESTION :

Did she try to get Tyrion to go to pentos in the books like the show ?? I do not have GoT or Cok on me

[Lummel]

No. show only.  Tyrion thinks about going to the free cities with sansa on the day of Joffrey's marriage, but other things happen that day.

[Sheogorath]

Lummel, on 04 March 2013 - 02:35 PM, said:

No. show only.  Tyrion thinks about going to the free cities with sansa on the day of Joffrey's marriage, but other things happen that day.

Thank you for this

But onto the real topic.  I dont know. I didnt get to read the Shea POV lol.

Yes she is a whore, but whore can love, or not.  I didnt spend to much time thinking about it TBH.  I think the story is better if she didnt.  I like the idea of tyrion finding out Tysha did love him and Shea did not right around the same time.  But the text to me could be either way.  I think its possible to love a man and silk... and jewels...other finery....

[shiola]

I've thought about this a lot and have come to the conclusion she didn't ever love him.  And he never loved her.  He just loves the idea of love, loves the idea of belonging with someone.  Although you could argue it's his "fault", I wouldn't personally.  I feel very bad for Tyrion.  He's a tragic character.

Whether or not Varys was in on this is something I never considered, but it's interesting.

[jefjac]

I don't think either that Shae loved Tyrion. She was more interested in the luxuries of King's Landing and the comfort it provided than Tyrion's concern for her.

As to Tyrion, its still a mystery. I mean he fumbled in love once with Tysha once( atleast he believed so).I find it hard he fell for the same trick again.
I think he knew she was Tywin's spy and a part of him still trusted his dad, till Jaime revealed the truth.

[DragonAge93]

I don't think TV show Shae truly loves Tyrion either. It's that one quote she said "Don't trust anybody, life is safer that way", and she has this look. I don't think she trusts Tyrion all that much, and might be playing a "game" on him, like maybe Cersei found out and it'll be revealed she had Shae start betraying Tyrion after the Blackwater battle.

[oliewankanobe]

No, she never loved him. But really, I think her character existed for no other reason than to allow Tyrion to act out a kindness and loyalty he can never give to his first love.

He may never stop recreating that relationship, which makes me wish she was still alive somewhere. It would be typically perverse.

[podrick_payne45]

When i watch the show i feel like her love is genuine but in the books i do not feel it as much.

[podrick_payne45]

Her feelings toward Tyrion may be similar to Bronn. She likes him well enough but was not willing to risk her life to save him. For me that is not love.

[ACB]

I agree that the book and show Shae have different feelings about Tyrion. In the book I don't think Shae loves Tyrion. Like other people said, I think she loves what he can give to her.

Tyrion, well, I think all his life was marked by the fact that anyone loves him. So, I agree with Squire:

Vis, on 04 March 2013 - 05:55 PM, said:

I've thought about this a lot and have come to the conclusion she didn't ever love him.  And he never loved her.  He just loves the idea of love, loves the idea of belonging with someone.  Although you could argue it's his "fault", I wouldn't personally.  I feel very bad for Tyrion.  He's a tragic character.

Whether or not Varys was in on this is something I never considered, but it's interesting.

[~Shiera Seastar~]

The show added romance to some of the character's story, like Tyrion and Shae. Show Shae seemed to care (not really love - it's a strong word) about Tyrion. Was it a genuine care though?

Book Shae, on the other hand, was only Tyrion's companion who loved the things he can give her in exchange of her making him happy after all the shitty things he just endured during the day.

[LampreyPie]

I replied to this topic about a year ago and I've just been doing some thinking about whether Tywin really invited Shae into his bed, and whether he really would have had any whore in his bed. It stinks of Varys, doesn't it?

The Wiki of Ice and Fire page for, I think, Varys, describes Varys leading Tyrion out of the Red Keep and mentions that his protests to Tyrion going into his father's chambers are "curiously weak" or something like that. I'm starting to think he engineered the whole thing and somehow--I don't begin to have a clue how--got Shae in there.