415 replies to this topic

[Calibandar]

I just hope this deal is for real. And if it is, that we will get to see great basketball.

For Howard this certainly makes sense. Bryant will be gone in a year or two, so will Nash and Gasol most likely, but he is young enough to the center star there for years, if he wants it. But for next season, we know Nash is still excellent, Bryant had a strong last season even if he has been one of the lesser players on the Olympic Dream Team, and Gasol will continue to be a strong assett. And for those players coming off the Olympics, well they'll still have 10 weeks of rest before the season starts. NBA offseason is looooong.

If OKC keep Perkins though, I am not so convinced that Lakers are better on paper. It would be between these two, and Spurs once again. Though you'd have to wonder how an ageing Spurs side could keep up with these two teams one more year without reinforcements ( at least I haven't heard of any).

[Slurktan]

Fez, on 10 August 2012 - 07:47 AM, said:

It worked out pretty well for the Nuggets and Sixers as well I think.  But the Magic, oh wow.  I knew they weren't going to get much for Howard, but they did awful.

I don't think they did awful actually, just ok.  They got a young promising big man in Vucevic and a young wing in Affalo.  Unfortunately they also had to take Al Harrington's corpse.  I'd say they did better than the Nets deal actually.  Brook Lopez is garbage and those unprotected picks would have been in the 25-30 range and so not worth much.

[Morpheus]

Orlando really shot themselves in the foot with this. No offer was amazing, but this seems a lot worse than what the Nets and Rockets offered.

Hi, new Orlando manager.
Bye, new Orlando manager.

[Reposado]

unless of course they just want to bottom out and get a franchise guy at the top of the draft. which makes sense sorta. except that they just had a franchise guy

[Triskele]

I think stuff like this trade is where Simmons most useful.

[aeu]

Slurktan, on 10 August 2012 - 09:06 AM, said:

I don't think they did awful actually, just ok.  They got a young promising big man in Vucevic and a young wing in Affalo.  Unfortunately they also had to take Al Harrington's corpse.  I'd say they did better than the Nets deal actually.  Brook Lopez is garbage and those unprotected picks would have been in the 25-30 range and so not worth much.

Apparently Al Harrington's contract is partially guaranteed, so there is some relief there at least.

I definitely agree with Slurk. This is not much better than the Nets deal but I don't think it's worse either. If we break it down:

The picks: Wash.
Harkless vs. Brooks: Who knows? Apparently Orlando is very high on Harkless and they never shown any willingness to take on Brooks. Let's call this a wash at this point.
Humpries v. Al Harrington: Inconsequential. Both will be gone in a year.

So it comes down to (Afflalo + Vucevic) vs. Lopez at a 5 year max or near max deal. I guess people can disagree on which one is better, but personally I would never, ever get Lopez at a max deal if I am trying to rebuild from scratch.

Seems to me that Orlando (rightfully) thought that the Nets deal was garbage, looked for a better deal and in the end was forced to take more or less the same deal. Funny how these things always end up working for the Lakers...

Edited by aeu, 10 August 2012 - 02:55 PM.

[Barristan the Boss]

Maithanet, on 10 August 2012 - 07:47 AM, said:

Aaaand that's why I always root against the Lakers.  I thought trading away Bynum and Gasol for Howard was a questionable move, even if it did look like the Bynum/Gasol/Bryant trio had peaked.  But Bynum for Howard and still keeping Gasol ABSOLUTELY RIDICULOUS.

Looks like I'm gonna be rooting for the Thunder and Heat this coming year.  I think the only thing that can stop this colossus is injury.  Nash is old, Bryant is coming off the Olympics and already looks to be fading, Gasol likewise, Howard is still coming back from back problems.  But if all four of them are playing and close to healthy, I don't think this team can be stopped.

This is very reminiscent of the Gasol 'trade' (*cough* robbery *cough*). Age/injury is the only thing that can stop them, but with that kind of team there is no great load placed on any one player, which will help keep them fresh for longer. And now they have the super defensive eraser in Howard, meaning guys on the perimeter can take more risks knowing that the ball may be sent to the rafters if a player gets past them.

I don't even think Mike Brown will have a problem coaching these guys, given he'll have 2 coaches playing in the back court.

[Triskele]

Sully, on 10 August 2012 - 01:00 PM, said:

This is very reminiscent of the Gasol 'trade' (*cough* robbery *cough*). Age/injury is the only thing that can stop them, but with that kind of team there is no great load placed on any one player, which will help keep them fresh for longer. And now they have the super defensive eraser in Howard, meaning guys on the perimeter can take more risks knowing that the ball may be sent to the rafters if a player gets past them.

That, I think, is the biggest thing going on here.

Kobe and Nash can slack on the offensive end now in a way that they could never have gotten away with before.  Bynum might have more post moves than Howard, but Howard is vastly superior on the shot-changing/shot-blocking front.  And Metta can still d up too whatever else there is to say about him.

I am not a Laker fan.  We are raised to hate them in Portland.  But now that I live in SoCal I have to admit that I'll probably tune in to watch this team a lot next year just to see the hoops on display.

[Calibandar]

Orlando taking this deal whilst refusing the Brook Lopez deal with the Nets does sort of make sense if you consider that they didn't force the Lakers to give up Gasol, which they probably could have done if they'd really wanted to. But it's been suggested that Orlando wants go back to the drawing board and not take Gasol's huge contract for the next two years, since they wouldn't be *that* much better with just Gasol anyway. If that is the reasoning, I totally understand. Now they got rid of Richardson, who isn't that great anyway, and Howard, and get young talents in return plus good draft picks in the next few years.

Is it a great deal? No, unless you've already accepted that you're going to lose Howard, who is the only great player in your team and you can't keep him anyway, and if you've accepted that the next two or three seasons are going to be spent on the bottom of the table. That would have happened with Gasol or Lopez as well.

Good deal for the Sixers though. I can see Bynum working out well there with the team that they have. And Iguadala isn't the youngest anymore.

[aeu]

Calibandar, on 10 August 2012 - 02:31 PM, said:

and get young talents in return plus good draft picks in the next few years.

The thing is they really didn't get that much young talent. (Afflalo should be considered a veteran at this point, we more or less know what he can do). They definitely didn't get good draft picks.

I am totally fine with Orlando not going for Gasol or Bynum, but you would think they could at least clear some more salary and / or get a few young assets.  Only way this works out for them is if Harkless blows out in 2-3 years.

Quote

Bynum might have more post moves than Howard,

This is true, but Howard is a much, much better fit with Nash on offense. Bynum is not a very instinctive / reactive player on offense. It seems like he is thinking before every dribble, his moves are almost robotic at times. He can be very effective (and more effective than Howard) when you dump him the ball and he takes his time. but that's not necessarily the best use of Nash's skills.  Howard should be great rolling to the basket and finishing after Nash creates havoc.

Edited by aeu, 10 August 2012 - 03:17 PM.

[SkynJay]

Seems to me the Nugs stayed even.  Gave up a perimeter defender that could hit threes for a better defender.  But Harrington actually was a good bench player last year, granted making too much cash.  Oh, and suddenly I have to be a Heat fan.  Stupid Lakers, making me root against Nash.

[Triskele]

aeu, on 10 August 2012 - 02:56 PM, said:

This is true, but Howard is a much, much better fit with Nash on offense. Bynum is not a very instinctive / reactive player on offense. It seems like he is thinking before every dribble, his moves are almost robotic at times. He can be very effective (and more effective than Howard) when you dump him the ball and he takes his time. but that's not necessarily the best use of Nash's skills.  Howard should be great rolling to the basket and finishing after Nash creates havoc.

Oh, I agree there too.  This is potentially a masterstroke.  Howard is going to get a ton of points on this team without being given the ball on the block the way Bynum would get it.  Pick-and-roll dunks and putback dunks galore are coming.  Plus Pau is a really good high post passer, so Howard will probably get the occasional easy bucket from a Pau pass as opposed to a Nash pass.

At the end of the day, that it what is so amazing about this:  they only gave up Bynum.

Plenty of the previous rumors involved the Lakers giving up Pau and Bynum whether it was straight to Orlando or in some multi-team deal in order to get the deal done.  But now they keep Pau.  Crazy.  Pau is not as good as he was a few years ago, but having Nash and Howard around him is going to work wonders.

I think the most interesting thing here is Kobe.  He's never had two superstars on his team at the same time before.  It will probably work out since Nash is a distributor and Howard should be OK with being third option at best on O, but it is still a new situation for Kobe.

[Sir Thursday]

Calibandar, on 10 August 2012 - 02:31 PM, said:

Orlando taking this deal whilst refusing the Brook Lopez deal with the Nets does sort of make sense if you consider that they didn't force the Lakers to give up Gasol, which they probably could have done if they'd really wanted to. But it's been suggested that Orlando wants go back to the drawing board and not take Gasol's huge contract for the next two years, since they wouldn't be *that* much better with just Gasol anyway. If that is the reasoning, I totally understand. Now they got rid of Richardson, who isn't that great anyway, and Howard, and get young talents in return plus good draft picks in the next few years.

Is it a great deal? No, unless you've already accepted that you're going to lose Howard, who is the only great player in your team and you can't keep him anyway, and if you've accepted that the next two or three seasons are going to be spent on the bottom of the table. That would have happened with Gasol or Lopez as well.

Good deal for the Sixers though. I can see Bynum working out well there with the team that they have. And Iguadala isn't the youngest anymore.

Thing is though, they haven't exactly wiped the slate clean with this deal. They've still got Turkoglu and Davis on the books and have had to take on Al Harrington. Harrington had a good year last year, but he really isn't a great fit on a rebuilding team. Plus, the picks they've ended up with aren't particularly good - none of them are going to be anywhere near the lottery. Afflalo is a good fit for them, and Vucevic showed some promise last year, but it still doesn't seem like enough somehow.

But I can understand why they didn't take the Lopez deal and I would probably say that this is better for them than that original deal. Lopez on a max contract is clearly overpaid. Humphries for nearly $10M (even for just one year)? Probably overpaid as well. And paying too much is crippling when you're going into a rebuilding stint.

I'm disappointed that the Lakers ended up getting exactly what they wanted (again!) but not particularly surprised. People have been saying for over a year now that the Lakers were always capable of offering the best package - Bynum trumps pretty much any other offer (Bynum for Howard straight up was something I saw suggested numerous times). Normally I would be castigating the other teams involved for facilitating a deal like this, but I feel that both Denver and Philly have significantly improved their teams with this deal, so I don't mind it too much.

ST

[Calibandar]

I do wonder though why Orlando didn't get Bynum himself out of this deal.Obviously they are getting little out of this deal as it is, but even considering the rebuilding idea, wouldn't Bynum at this age have been a good pillar around which you can start rebuilding?

Doesn't make sense unless Bynum absolutely didn't want to play for Orlando, which has been rumoured a lot.

[David Selig]

As an Orlando fan I expected a bad deal, but this is worse than what I thought. Still don't get why we didn't ask for Bynum. Yeah, it's a risk he won't sign an extension, but better take the risk instead of getting a bunch of players none of which is a star or on a particularly good contract, and a few protected picks.

[Relic]

id like to reiterate -