59 replies to this topic

[House Of Wolves]

Im not sure if people have mentioned this before but this is my theory on who the  valonqar is

Maggy:"Gold shall be their crowns and gold their shrouds," she said. "And when your tears have drowned you, the valonqar
shall wrap his hands about your pale white throat and choke the life from you."

most people seem to think its jamie or tyrion as cersei thinks since valonqar means "little brother". This makes sense and everything but its just to obvious for me even if it was Jamie. some people might say the obvious choice is sometimes the right choice.  but in the case of a prophecy that involves someones death when martin is anything but obvious when it comes to how people die I just don't see it being eather of them.

so if its not her actual brothers then who is it? I think its The person who i always envisioned killing cersei to began with and that is arya Stark. before you dismiss this as it  cant be her the prophecy clearly sais "brother" and "his" hands ,  a girl cant  be it let me tell you why i believe the valonqar is Arya.

1. I have thought all along that arya would get at least one face that is a males . why wouldnt she when from the very start of the story all she wants is to be able to do the things that are only acceptable for males to do. This takes care of the "his" hands problem since arya would be in a males form when she killed  cersei.

2. now lets look at the word "little brother". First think of all the references to the word "little" and Arya. people on many occasions as i recall referred to her as "Little Arya Stark". also Arya:" Its so little" Jon" So are you" . there are many other references of arya and the word "little" also she is called "boy" throughout, and lets not forget Jon always called her "little sis". for that is who she is The "little sister" of the starks that changes her form into a boys and becomes the "little brother" of the prophecy.

3. Then you got cerseis debt to the iorn bank as a perfect little cause for the facless men to be hired to assasinate her. Im sure Arya will be jumping at the bit on that one and it returns her to westeros where she belongs. also the little ironic foreshadowing of a  " A lanister Always Pays his debts" unless of course your cersei lanister.

4. if thats not enough for you how about the very word "valonqar" take out the middle "onq" and your left with "valar"  as in valar morghulis the last words I envision cersei ever hearing.

As Arya Wraped "his" hands around her pale white throat and watched the life choked from her eyes she leaned over the queen and whispered in her ear valar morghulis.

So what do you think? this is my first post on here so try to go easy on me.

[Frey Pentos]

Strangulation doesn't seem Arya's style. Cersei would have to be incapacitated in some way to be choked to death by a small girl imo.

[Kittykatknits]

Most seem to think the valonqar is Jaime but Arya and Sandor Clegane seem the most popular answers behind him. I'm in the Jaime camp myself, it makes the most sense to me based upon their personal history.

[Apple Martini]

I still think it's Jaime. I think valonqar means pretty much what it says it means, it's just that Cersei is pegging the wrong brother.

[Mulled Wino]

Jamie makes sense if for some unfathomable reason imcat doesnt have him hanged.  Or if he escapes before he gets to uncat

[S N Black]

It's a plausible theory.  Arya does have her religious training with the God of many faces, and that includes bringing death to people. What I am unconvinced about is how Arya will get back to King's Landing, why and what causes her to kill Cersei (aside from her list).

My guess is Littlefinger and/or Sansa. They are both plotting for the Iron throne, and Sansa seems to have quite the knack for playing the game.  She will excel at it once LF is done training her.

[Jem]

I think it is enough of a 'twist' for Cersei to die at the hands of the brother she loves rather than the brother she hates and fears. I also think that Jaime will die almost immediately after killing her - he came into the world clutching at Cersei's heels and I think he will leave the world in the same way.

[House Of Wolves]

i just dont see jamie as a " little brother" to cersei. also the prophecy seems to indicate she will die after being overthrown. i just dont see jamie killing her unless he had no other choice. will see i guess

[Fire Eater]

Jem, on 05 July 2012 - 08:06 PM, said:

I think it is enough of a 'twist' for Cersei to die at the hands of the brother she loves rather than the brother she hates and fears. I also think that Jaime will die almost immediately after killing her - he came into the world clutching at Cersei's heels and I think he will leave the world in the same way.

That seems to be the relationship between Cersei and prophecy, she focuses on the wrong people of the prophecy and ignores the people whom the prophecy actually refers to. The first prophecy, "until there comes another, younger and more beautiful, to cast you down and take all that you hold dear," Cersei thinks Margaery is the younger queen when the real threat is 1) Dany, Cersei interrupts Aurane Waters and Qyburn when they try to bring up news about Dany and her dragons, or 2) Sansa, whom Cersei dismissed as a fool.

With the valonqar prophecy, Cersei is focused on the wrong brother, Tyrion, who is both her younger brother and a dwarf making him the obvious candidate. She would never believe that Jaime would kill her, and while they are twins, Jaime was born after Cersei making him her little brother. Jaime and Cersei keep saying they came into this world together, they'll leave it together, GRRM doesn't leave something like that if it doesn't have any meaning.

Edited by Fire Eater, 05 July 2012 - 09:18 PM.

[Sweet April]

I don’t know what will drive him to do it, but my money is on Jaime, though it could be Moonboy for all I know.The other theories of who it may be make sense as well and I won't be disappointed if someone else does it, particularly if it's Arya, Sansa or Sandor. In any case it will be a delicous read whomever does the deed.

Edited by Sweet April, 05 July 2012 - 08:26 PM.

[Mulled Wino]

Jem, on 05 July 2012 - 08:06 PM, said:

I think it is enough of a 'twist' for Cersei to die at the hands of the brother she loves rather than the brother she hates and fears. I also think that Jaime will die almost immediately after killing her - he came into the world clutching at Cersei's heels and I think he will leave the world in the same way.

Cersei doesnt love Jamie, not anymore if she ever really did.

[Jem]

Mulled Wino, on 05 July 2012 - 08:27 PM, said:

Cersei doesnt love Jamie, not anymore if she ever really did.

It's not the kind of love I'd want in my life, but I'd still call it love.

[Mulled Wino]

Jem, on 05 July 2012 - 08:37 PM, said:

It's not the kind of love I'd want in my life, but I'd still call it love.

I think it may have been at some point, but really she's just using him by this point, there's no love there so i think some of the shock of it being Jamie, if it is, is gone.

Being a huge arya fan, id love it if the ts is right though!

[Sevumar]

Jem, on 05 July 2012 - 08:37 PM, said:

It's not the kind of love I'd want in my life, but I'd still call it love.

It's love that's consistent with the way Cersei interacts with the world. She genuinely feels something for him, but she is increasingly cruel and controlling as the story progresses. Jaime, in turn, is controlling in his belief that he has a right to sexual exclusivity with her.

The identity of the valonqar works best when it is someone who has deep personal significance to her. That's why I find it hard to believe any other "little brother" could be the one mentioned in the prophecy. Maggy's is a very personal prophecy for Cersei, and Jaime fills the blind spot.

[Nymeria's]

I like this OP. I can see this. Very well thought out. Can someone remind me, does it say it's Cersei's little brother or can valonquar mean any "little brother?" If it's not Arya as a faceless boy, I would like it to be Bran or Rickon. Tyrion would do nicely for me as well.  Rickon has the personality to do it but not the strength.

About Jaime's hand. Could he just wrap one hand around Cersei's throat? Or will Qyburn grow him a new hand--out of Gregor parts??

[RedBean]

It's probably Jaime. It wouldn't exactly make a lot of sense for Arya to kill Cersei...

[y ddraig]

My crackpot theory is still that it's Jon (with L+R=J). He'd be the younger brother of the Targaryen dynasty, which is the the only reason I can see for Maggy to use a single Valyrian word in her prophecy. I mean, why valonqar? Why not a variation of brother?

[Ser Ingolf]

I still think Jaime is the best bet but I recently saw a suggestion of Stannis (Robert's younger brother) and I find that intriguing.

I won't say Arya is impossible but I don't see her strangling Cersei.  Then again, the prophecy could just be wrong.

[House Of Wolves]

Nymeria, on 05 July 2012 - 10:30 PM, said:

I like this OP. I can see this. Very well thought out. Can someone remind me, does it say it's Cersei's little brother or can valonquar mean any "little brother?" If it's not Arya as a faceless boy, I would like it to be Bran or Rickon. Tyrion would do nicely for me as well.  Rickon has the personality to do it but not the strength.

About Jaime's hand. Could he just wrap one hand around Cersei's throat? Or will Qyburn grow him a new hand--out of Gregor parts??

you bring up some good points. since it said the "valonqar" not your  "valonqar"  . this is why i think its  not necessarily her little brother .also jamie having one hand  is something i didn't even think of.  although jamie being able to choke cersei to death with one hand probably  wouldn't  be any real problem for him.  but the prophecy  does say "his hands" not " his hand" . i don't think jamie is the valonqar. i dont  think  these things disprove jamie by any means but it is interesting to think about.

[Ragnorak]

I think it pretty much has to be either Jaime or Tyrion.  Maybe you can stretch it to be Tommen since Cersei's three children were part of the whole prophesy and valonqar could be construed as referring to her children from the previous question.  But if "little brother" means nothing in specific context to Cersei it is just too vague and cheap.

Any little brother?  Ok Cersei, Robert won't kill you but the rest of the population might unless you get a family tree.  Oh wait, did Robert's father have any bastards that might be older?  You're not sure, well we can't be sure about Robert not killing you either.