163 replies to this topic

[alienarea]

Apologies for starting another thread about Coldhands, but I am convinced that he is Brandon Stark and it is all given away in the book.

The following quotes are from the HarperVoyager paperback of A Dance with Dragons, ISBN 978-0-00-648611-4.

From the first Bran chapter, page 80:

Coldhands did not move.
“A monster,” Bran said.
The ranger looked at Bran as if the rest of them did not exist.
“Your monster, Brandon Stark”.

From the second Bran chapter, page 202:

Bran shivered again. “The ranger …”
“He cannot come.”
“They’ll kill him.”
“No. They killed him long ago. Come now. It is warmer down deep, and no one will hurt you there. He is waiting for you.”

From the third Bran chapter, page 535f:

Then as he watched, a bearded man forced a captive down onto his knees before the heart tree.  A white-haired woman stepped toward them through a drift of dark red leaves, a bronze sickle in her hand. “No”, said Bran, “no, don’t,” but they could not hear him, no more than his father had. The woman grabbed the captive by the hair, hooked the sickle round his throat, and slashed. And through the mist of centuries the broken boy could only watch as the man’s feet drummed against the earth. .. but as his life flowed out of him in a red tide, Brandon Stark could taste the blood.

The third quote is when Bran is seeing through the weirwood at Winterfell. He sees various scenes in reversed timing, this quote being the oldest scene because the weirwood is small and the other saplings around don’t exist at that time. Bran recognizes some men standing around the captive from the crypts but doesn’t give names, so they must be his ancestors, lords of house Stark.

My argument is that the last sentence starting with  but as his life is a shifted perspective indicated by the … before. It is told from the captive who is sacrificed and tastes his own blood.  And his name is Brandon Stark.

That links to a part of the second quote. They killed him long ago. We know the captive was killed a long time ago because the weirwood in Winterfell is still small. We have another change in perspective here, because the They doesn’t refer to the wights as Bran thinks but to the ancient Starks in the third quote.

Finally, in the first quote Coldhands says “Your monster, Brandon Stark.” He is introducing himself. This is the loop to when he dies in the third quote. And why he is hiding his face and throat. Bran would recognize him after he looks through the weirwood in Winterfell.

1^st additional comment: I have wondered why Bloodraven is with the CotF as he is a Targaryen loyalist. My current understanding is that the CotF need Bloodraven (Targaryen, fire) and Bran (Stark, ice) to work together against the Others. This implies that the CotF are not in league with the Others but the (early) Starks were.

2^nd: additional comment: Bloodravens name is Brynden Rivers. Brynden – Brandon sounds very similar.

[kissdbyfire]

The connection looking at the three quoted passages together is very intersting. What are your thoughts regarding the fact that all clues seem to indicate he was a member of the NW? Could he have been the Stark on the Wall back then, deserted and was executed/sacrificed?

ps: don't forget that Bloodraven is also FM on his mother's side.

[Pope Killdragon]

1) Coldhands was a man of the Night's Watch, Brandon Stark was not
2) "Your Monster, Brandon Stark" he obviously talking to Bran, as if to say I'm your monster, Brandon Stark. He wasn't identifying himself he was indicating that he knew Bran's full name.

[nQthing]

Does one inherit a FM trait? Someone better tell arya

[Lykos]

TheMountainThatFlies, on 07 July 2012 - 02:53 PM, said:

<snip>Brandon Stark was not
<snip>

One of them was.

[Lummel]

nQthing, on 07 July 2012 - 02:54 PM, said:

Does one inherit a FM trait? Someone better tell arya

I think Arya already know which First Men traits she has inherited

[alienarea]

Lykos, on 07 July 2012 - 02:59 PM, said:

One of them was.

... the Night's King.

[Rohed]

The connections all work if:

You assume Brandon Stark was the last hero and the AA theory that lightbringer is symbolic for the NW and him giving up his family/ titles. This would indicate that Brandon Stark was a member of the nights was (lord commander)

BUT

who would be the white hair women? i would assume a Targ.

[_Oberyn_]

Im a bit confused, Which Brandon Stark is this suposed to be?

[Jon's Queen Consort]

alienarea, on 07 July 2012 - 02:40 PM, said:

Apologies for starting another thread about Coldhands, but I am convinced that he is Brandon Stark

Which one? There are at least 10 "Brandon Stark" we know of, I counted them from wikia http://awoiaf.wester...disambiguation). So, whom of them all?

edit it's who or whom?

Edited by Jon's Queen Consort, 07 July 2012 - 03:15 PM.

[Lady Tippy Wolfsbane]

TheMountainThatFlies, on 07 July 2012 - 02:53 PM, said:

1) Coldhands was a man of the Night's Watch, Brandon Stark was not
2) "Your Monster, Brandon Stark" he obviously talking to Bran, as if to say I'm your monster, Brandon Stark. He wasn't identifying himself he was indicating that he knew Bran's full name.

1. There may have been a 'Brandon Stark' that was a member of the NW...the Night's King.

2. It's all in interpretation, and I think it was purposely written that way.

[WillWork4NinjaPowers]

Are you talking about Brandon Stark, Neds brother, or Bran the Builder?  Cold Hands was a member of the Night's Watch.

Edited by WillWork4NinjaPowers, 07 July 2012 - 03:15 PM.

[Crown]

Sorry, but which Brandon Stark are you talking about? http://awoiaf.wester...disambiguation)

Edited by Crown, 07 July 2012 - 03:15 PM.

[Ragnorak]

I absolutely love the way you pieced this together.  I don't believe its true (the Nights King strikes me as by far the most likely candidate put forth) but great work.

[Rohed]

Nights king was a brandon stark wasnt he?
but I dont beleave they killed him, he was sent to wonder behind the wall because his connect with the other.

I will also note the placement of the text. Brans story on the night king appears directly aftet Sam meets coldhands. This could be proposed as an intoduction to who the character(coldhand) is.

As far as the weirwood site, I assume targ or andels kill someone, in winterfell. Who could these be that follow the story?
I assumed bloodraven at first but dont think it is logical. Can anyone give some insite on this

Edited by Rohed, 07 July 2012 - 05:30 PM.

[Jon's Queen Consort]

Rohed, on 07 July 2012 - 05:28 PM, said:

Nights king was a brandon stark wasnt he?

What? I am sorry but how do you know this?

[Rohed]

Jon, on 07 July 2012 - 05:32 PM, said:

What? I am sorry but how do you know this?

I asked it as a question because i'm not sure anymore, I may be from theories i read.

[Jon's Queen Consort]

Rohed, on 07 July 2012 - 05:40 PM, said:

I asked it as a question because i'm not sure anymore, I may be from theories i read.

I thought that you said it as a fact. I am sorry .

In ASOS Bran remembers that Old Nan had told him that people think that NK was a Magnar of Skagos, a Bolton,a Woodfoot, a Stark  ,a Norrey, an Umber, a Flint but she thinks that he was a Brandon Stark

Edited by Jon's Queen Consort, 07 July 2012 - 06:06 PM.

[Jo Maltese]

Brilliant Alienarea! I think you are spot on. I had made the same analysis with regards to the execution - that the man was actually a Brandon Stark (the question is : which one?) - but I had not clicked on Coldhands' introducing himself as Brandon Stark.

[rainsofcastamere]

i still believe that coldhands is benjen: he was of the night's watch, and he knew bran stark by name...