150 replies to this topic

[LuisDantas]

Castel, on 10 July 2012 - 01:53 PM, said:

This does not make sense. Him sending Mel to Ser Cortnay's tower proves that he has knowledge -or suspicion- of her abilities now, not that he knew when Renly died.

Do you think he would be tricked by Melisandre into letting her kill her brother, and then immediately brush it off and send her to a secondary target?

Personally, I just can't believe it.  Besides, we know how he talked about the matter to Davos in ACOK.

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Great Council? When the realm is torn apart by war and at least two of the biggest contenders will surely have nothing good to say about him? What exactly is supposed to happen there?

He will have conquered the right of saying that he presented a lawful, rightful claim as opposed to a martial one.

I don't mean to say that it was a good idea, mind you.  But it was his best shot at presenting himself as rightful King.

[Kittyhat]

Strigine, on 09 July 2012 - 10:58 PM, said:

More to the point, a person is 100% evil they can't be considered "black" anymore.

I assume you mean "if they aren't."  But I question that really.  If you're 95% evil, you're near enough to black as makes no appreciable difference.  Some would even say you're just a shade of black that isn't quite total pitch.

Furthermore, with respect to characters like Gregor and Ramsey and Joffrey, I'm not convinced that they aren't "100% evil."  I can't recall one redeeming quality any of the three of them ever demonstrated, and I have difficulty thinking of anything non-evil they ever did other than basic human functions like "eat food."  They're basically all three true Black Hats, as black as black comes, or -- again -- near enough as makes no difference.

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We can argue over whether people who are 90% evil are still called evil.

Well, now, I'm not arguing that the issue isn't more complex than just "you're good and you're evil, and that's the end of it."  I'm just saying that "you're gray, and that's the end of it" is every bit as simplistic, or perhaps even more so (as it amounts to making no determination whatsoever).

[Lothar Imbel]

LuisDantas, on 10 July 2012 - 12:32 PM, said:

You can't have it both ways; either there is significance to the method of killing or there is not.

By daring to allow the killing Stannis is endorsing the view that his soldiers should not attempt to survive at the expense of dead bodies that they did not kill. That would be questionable enough.  By allowing it to be a full cerimonial sacrifice for R'hllor, he is condoning religious fanaticism as well.

So much for being just.

i;d argue but i;,m drunk beyingd thi level of comeprehension:  fiuck the self righteous douchecunts that oppiose stannis based on some oppoised moral superiority jusrt becaue they read ythe books ioncorrectly, i'm not rresponsible for that

[Lady Lea]

Lothar Imbel, on 10 July 2012 - 05:59 PM, said:

i;d argue but i;,m drunk beyingd thi level of comeprehension:  fiuck the self righteous douchecunts that oppiose stannis based on some oppoised moral superiority jusrt becaue they read ythe books ioncorrectly, i'm not rresponsible for that

well I don't know whether to laugh or... laugh

If there's one character in the book who thinks they have the moral high ground it's Stannis tbh (well and Ned but that's another story)

[Lothar Imbel]

Get drunk as welkl? its an amazing oppertunity to see the perspective of a drunkard

[Fantôme]

Winter, on 10 July 2012 - 10:53 AM, said:

He knows Hodor is afraid and can even taste Hodor's fear at the back of his throat.

Not directed at you but I've seen many people wonder at Joff's heartlessly cutting a cat open and justifying Robert B.'s beating him for it. It is considered a sure sign of his being rotten from the start-so what is Bran's careless use of Hodor a sign of?

That he's a lonely disabled nine years-old who might spend the rest of his life as a tree , just found a way to "feel strong again" and probably doesn't understand exactly what he's doing? It's careless and insensitive, but certainly not remotely comparabe to what Joffrey does.

Edited by Fantôme, 11 July 2012 - 03:34 AM.

[Castel]

Fantôme, on 11 July 2012 - 03:31 AM, said:

That he's a lonely disabled nine years-old who might spend the rest of his life as a tree , just found a way to "feel strong again" and probably doesn't understand exactly what he's doing? It's careless and insensitive, but certainly not remotely comparabe to what Joffrey does.

Why not? Unlike Joff, he clearly has the tools to empathically understand what he's doing, at least on a much deeper level. And most of the time, I don't think he needs to do so. And yet he persists. It's terrible.

[kittenmittens]

By shades of grey, he meant that some are closer to white and others black, but none are purely white or black.

[Fantôme]

Castel, on 11 July 2012 - 03:37 AM, said:

Why not? Unlike Joff, he clearly has the tools to empathically understand what he's doing, at least on a much deeper level. And most of the time, I don't think he needs to do so. And yet he persists. It's terrible.

Because Joffrey is simply being cruel.Can you say the same about Bran? Joff has no reason to do what he does.

[Castel]

Fantôme, on 11 July 2012 - 03:40 AM, said:

Because Joffrey is simply being cruel.Can you say the same about Bran? Joff has no reason to do what he does.

Not really, it's played as him being curious and just lacking the filter most people have. He's told that cats have kittens in their bellies, so he cuts it open to see. Didn't he then go and show Robert the way most curious kids are with their discoveries or something?

AS for Bran, if warging Hodor saved his life I would understand, apart from that, what he's doing seems much worse to me because unlike sociopath Joffrey, he has both a logical and emotional understanding of his problems. He literally can feel the terror of the other person yet he persists. I don't think anyone else has ever had a more clearcut example of the suffering they inflicted.

[Frey Pie]

Lothar Imbel, on 10 July 2012 - 05:59 PM, said:

i;d argue but i;,m drunk beyingd thi level of comeprehension:  fiuck the self righteous douchecunts that oppiose stannis based on some oppoised moral superiority jusrt becaue they read ythe books ioncorrectly, i'm not rresponsible for that

Lothar Imbel, on 10 July 2012 - 06:18 PM, said:

Get drunk as welkl? its an amazing oppertunity to see the perspective of a drunkard

Haha iv heard of people going onto Facebook when there drunk but this is the first iv seen it in this forum-Congratulations!! BTW i happen to think Stannis is a grey character with some good and bad points