82 replies to this topic

[Trebuchet Penguin]

Counting Highborn only, so Hodor, Satin and Biter do not count.


Mace Tyrell
Lord Puff-Fish has the political abilities of, well, a fish. His only good trait is having superb allies in the form of QoT and Marg to keep him under control. This man would do better in a baker shop than being Hand of the King.

[SerStinger]

Robert. The guy hates politics yet he is the most powerful man in the realm, and fucks up at a major league level.

[Mladen]

Ned Stark, Stannis Baratheon, Balon Greyjoy, Robert and Cersei, Mace Tyrell, there are more, but these are on top of my mind

[Lady Lea]

The Mad King and Robert.

[Pellaeon]

Robert, Cersei, Balon, Ned, Lysa Arryn

[The Taupe Grace]

Mladen, on 10 July 2012 - 04:32 PM, said:

Ned Stark, Stannis Baratheon, Balon Greyjoy, Robert and Cersei, Mace Tyrell, there are more, but these are on top of my mind

Nah, I'd take Stannis off that list - just by the virtue of him being alive, he's been a pretty canny guy. Fled king's landing when Jon Arryn died, saving the Night's Watch, wooing the clans. He's made some good decisions. Some bad ones too, sure, and he's very much the sum of his good advisors (i.e. Davos) but the fact he listens and recognises good advice when he gets it definitely puts him above the others in that list.
I'd remove Cersei too, at least, until book 4.

Edited by The Taupe Grace, 10 July 2012 - 04:36 PM.

[David Selig]

Robb. Screwed up every possible thing politically. Almost 100% failure record.

Mace is not bad at all, he's keeping control over the most populous part of Westeros just fine.

Edited by David Selig, 10 July 2012 - 04:42 PM.

[E-Ro]

Cersei lannister

[LuisDantas]

Stannis, Roose Bolton (since I believe Ramsay does not qualify as Highborn), Walder Frey, Cersei, arguably Robert Baratheon.

Robert Arryn if you are going to allow him.

Oh, and Theon.  Poor Theon.

[The Mother of The Others]

Renly.   He didn't even understand the order of succession.   And he was IN the royal family!    That's embarrassing, man.   Talk about a blunder. The first thing they teach you in Nobleman 101 is how to chart who's next in line for the throne.   That's remedial level stuff.   Even among commoners it was common knowledge that Stannis was standing in the on deck circle.  Yet when Robert died Renly thought "It's my turn!"   Worst  political gaffe you can make during a dynasty era.   Renly, the worst politician ever.

[zippykeno]

The Mother of The Others, on 10 July 2012 - 04:50 PM, said:

Renly.   He didn't even understand the order of succession.   And he was IN the royal family! That's embarrassing, man.   Talk about a blunder. The first thing they teach you in Nobleman 101 is how to chart who's next in line for the throne.   That's remedial level stuff.   Even among commoners it was common knowledge that Stannis was standing in the on deck circle.  Yet when Robert died Renly thought "It's my turn!"   Worst  political gaffe you can make during a dynasty era.   Renly, the worst politician ever.

I think Renly was working from the assumption that he would be the best candidate for Kingship. And I think you're allowed to act a little cocky or foolish with the might of Highgarden backing up your rear.

Cersei is pretty bad at making relatively easy decisions, Robb also doesn't show a very good side when it comes to politics. Robert ofc. Perhaps Asha Greyjoy when she foolishly tried to persuade the Ironborn to stop raiding and enjoy it while it lasts.

Edit. forgot the worst politician...

Edited by zippykeno, 10 July 2012 - 04:56 PM.

[Mladen]

The Taupe Grace, on 10 July 2012 - 04:36 PM, said:

Nah, I'd take Stannis off that list - just by the virtue of him being alive, he's been a pretty canny guy. Fled king's landing when Jon Arryn died, saving the Night's Watch, wooing the clans. He's made some good decisions. Some bad ones too, sure, and he's very much the sum of his good advisors (i.e. Davos) but the fact he listens and recognises good advice when he gets it definitely puts him above the others in that list.
I'd remove Cersei too, at least, until book 4.

No one denies Stannis has done a miracle by survivng so far, but he is man no one listens or cares about, I know it isn`t completely true, but he is strong and not lovable. Polliticans are whores, they adore to be loved and needed and that`s not case with Stannis. As for Cersei, one book of stupidities she made was enough for me. and of course, I forgot Robb Stark

[mcb]

The Mother of The Others, on 10 July 2012 - 04:50 PM, said:

Renly.   He didn't even understand the order of succession.

He understood it fine, he just didn't give a rat's ass about it. It's ridiculous to say that a guy with a knife saying "give me your wallet" doesn't understand property laws.

Edited by mcb, 10 July 2012 - 05:01 PM.

[the Scorpion Knight]

for me it's: robert, robbb and gold medal goes to cersei and mace because don't work together even if they need it

[mcb]

The Taupe Grace, on 10 July 2012 - 04:36 PM, said:

Nah, I'd take Stannis off that list - just by the virtue of him being alive, he's been a pretty canny guy. Fled king's landing when Jon Arryn died, saving the Night's Watch, wooing the clans. He's made some good decisions. Some bad ones too, sure, and he's very much the sum of his good advisors (i.e. Davos) but the fact he listens and recognises good advice when he gets it definitely puts him above the others in that list.

Nope, Stannis belongs among the worst of them. He simply despises the concept of politics. Forging alliances, quid for quo, compromise - those terms he probably considers the dirtiest words he's ever seen. He has survived so far, true, but despite his political skills, not because of them.

[A Bong of Ice and Fire]

I disagree that Robert was a bad "politician".  He kept the realm intact for 15 years, a time of mostly peace & prosperity in Westeros!

He also demonstrated good political skills by co-opting his former enemies & making them his allies.  He seemed to treat the high lords pretty well, and they supported him.

Yes, he was a drunk and spendthrift and whoremonger.  But he wasn't a bad politician.

He was done in by scheming greedy family members, not by political foes.

[deadphoenix]

The Mother of The Others, on 10 July 2012 - 04:50 PM, said:

Renly.   He didn't even understand the order of succession.   And he was IN the royal family! That's embarrassing, man.   Talk about a blunder. The first thing they teach you in Nobleman 101 is how to chart who's next in line for the throne.   That's remedial level stuff.   Even among commoners it was common knowledge that Stannis was standing in the on deck circle.  Yet when Robert died Renly thought "It's my turn!"   Worst  political gaffe you can make during a dynasty era.   Renly, the worst politician ever.

What? Renly knew the succession law just fine, his point to Ned was Robert broke the succession law of the Targaryans so why couldn't he as well? Renly was an excellent politician, he gained the loyalty of many houses and had a large army willing to back his illegitimate claim, larger than his brother Stannis was able to assemble.

IMO Stannis is a terrible politician. Anytime you are the rightful heir and you can't get support, that is on you. Same goes for Viserys who did a terrible job managing a pretty good set-up for him. Cersei is also pretty awful now that she is Regent.

[Every]

I don't think Mace belongs on the 'worst' list. He's not half as good as the women in his family, but he's still alive, kicking and in power so he can't be that terrible. Same for Stannis - he may despise the game but he's not above playing it. Robb handled the political side relatively well up until he married Jeyne Westerling - with the exception of the Karstarks, but he didn't have many options there, and he couldn't know the Boltons would execute such a spectacular double cross. Cersei managed to tread water for a while after Tywin's death, so while she's pretty terrible, I wouldn't call her the worst.

Theon would be my vote for worst politician/strategist.

[LordBloodraven]

Varys is the sole politician of the 7 Kingdoms, the only one to care about the public good, or so he says

[Winterfell is Burning]

Balon deserves this spot easily- going into rebellion alone without bothering to make alliances, and even worse, doing it again the second time, this time attacking the only guy willing to offer some help.

Really, there isn't even a close #2 to me. Balon really, really sucked.