399 replies to this topic

[Stannis the Stern]

I picked up this series just after I finished asoiaf, I was craving for something to keep my mind occupied until The Winds of Winter comes out. Much of my friends advised me to pick up The Wheel of Time series. It is a lengthy series and the books were quite thick, so I thought that this would easily pass time quickly until tWoW is released. Now many readers and critics alike say that the Eye of the World is a classic, now don't get me wrong I enjoyed the book but I couldn't just help myself and consider this to be most generic fantasy book I've ever read. Obviously nearly every fantasy series out there follows Tolkien's pattern for the layout of that specific fantasy, but with tEotW, it blatantly copied Lotr. The characters, the plot, the world, it actually put me off. However I did enjoy it. Sure the plot was incredibly meandering at times but it had its moments such as the journey spent at Shadar Logoth.

I entered the second book hoping that it would improve from the first one, IMO it was duller than the first one. I thought Dany's chapters were boring in the fifth book, now I've learnt to appreciate them and thank the Gods that it isn't like The Great Hunt. Overall, didn't like the second book too much. Started The Dragon Reborn and gave up half way to read some thing more interesting. (Picked up Assassin's Apprentice yesterday, I've enjoyed it so far.)  

Now I don't hate tWoT and I can sort of understand why it has a big fan base but never would I call the series a classic. When you realise that Moiraine is basically Gandalf with a sex change and that the female characters have the same whiny bitch personality, it's actually hard for me to like it. Any-who this isn't a bashing thread I just wanted to know your opinions about the series.

Edited by Stannis the Stern, 14 July 2012 - 03:54 PM.

[AlexT]

There must already be a thread about this somewhere...

[Stannis the Stern]

Really? Well I'm far too lazy to go and search for it.

[Lightning Lord]

http://asoiaf.wester...-wheel-of-time/

there are several others

[Eejit]

Jordan intentionally chose to have the beginning to be reminiscent of the flight from the Shire.
Moiraine is nothing like Gandalf and the female characters are really quite varied. I guess the fact they don't put up, shut up ant let the men do their thing can make them seem 'whiny' or 'bitchy' to some.

You clearly won't enjoy the rest of the series however and apparently don't 'get it' in the slightest, your loss.

[Maithanet]

Stannis the Stern, on 12 July 2012 - 07:12 AM, said:

I picked up this series just after I finished asoiaf, I was craving for something to keep my mind occupied until The Winds of Winter comes out. Much of my friends advised me be to pick up The Wheel of Time series. It is a lengthy series and the books were quite thick, so I thought that this would easily pass time quickly until tWoW is released. Now many readers and critics alike say that the Eye of the World is a classic, now don't get me wrong I enjoyed the book but I couldn't just help myself and consider this to be most generic fantasy book I've ever read. Obviously nearly every fantasy series out there follows Tolkien's pattern for the layout of that specific fantasy, but with tEotW, it blatantly copied Lotr. The characters, the plot, the world, it actually put me off. However I did enjoy it. Sure the plot was incredibly meandering at times but it had its moments such as the journey spent at Shadar Logoth.

I entered the second book hoping that it would improve from the first one, IMO it was duller than the first one. I though Dany's chapters were boring in the fifth book, now I've learnt to appreciate them and thank the Gods that it isn't like The Great Hunt. Overall, didn't like the second book too much. Started The Dragon Reborn and gave up half way to read some thing more interesting. (Picked up Assassin's Apprentice yesterday, I've enjoyed it so far.)

If you think books 1-3 are only OK, you should just stop.  The story is tightest and the characters at their least annoying in books 1-5.  Later on, tertiary characters start getting their own chapters and subplots, whole books go by without seeing Mat or Perrin, and when you do see them they're just dealing with the same problems they were two books ago.

Sounds like you might like Abercrombie, it's got plenty of action, enough plot to keep you thinking and overall some enjoyable characters.

[Stannis the Stern]

Eejit, on 12 July 2012 - 08:01 AM, said:

Jordan intentionally chose to have the beginning to be reminiscent of the flight from the Shire.
Moiraine is nothing like Gandalf and the female characters are really quite varied. I guess the fact they don't put up, shut up ant let the men do their thing can make them seem 'whiny' or 'bitchy' to some.

You clearly won't enjoy the rest of the series however and apparently don't 'get it' in the slightest, your loss.

Its the little things about the book that annoy me like: Myrddraal/Nazgul, Ogier/Ents, Lan/Aragorn, et cetera. The other reason that annoyed is that Jordan didn't know how to write female characters properly, I mean there were times where I hoped Nynaeve would just drop dead because of her bitchiness. Save for a few like Moiraine, all the female characters were quite pretentious. Males characters suffer the same personality disorder as well, they're thick and the women are clever. Well IMO I though Moiraine was like a rehash of Gandalf: comes to Emond Field/Hobbiton, sh*t stirs up, everyone blames the Aes Sedai/Wizard and thus begins the journey. Well not exactly bad, just a little too gimmicky when think about Lotr.

Edited by Stannis the Stern, 12 July 2012 - 09:32 AM.

[wolverine]

It got me back into reading when I was about 17 and has a soft spot for me.  i do still think his world building is the best of any fantasy that I have read.  I don't know how well it would do if I were just starting the series now after reading what I have read.

[longlivestark]

Jordan had some.... intresting thoughts about gender relations. The females can get annoying, there are moments when they can be great and achieve things as well as the men, but they spend alot of time thinking about how men always make mistakes while they don't acknowledge their own, how men do things wrong and need a woman to do things properly. As for them being 'bitches' there is only one moment, near the end of book 3, where I thought  they seriously should have just been locked back in their cell and left to the Dark One. Besides that moment, and one long instance in book 7, I found them tolerable. I actually like Nynaeve, she is without question my favorite of the three supergirls and probably all the female characters in the series.

Edited by longlivestark, 12 July 2012 - 08:45 AM.

[wolverine]

One thing to remember is that most of the women in the books are speaking from a thousand years of power over common people and almost all men, even those with their own power.  I am pretty sure part of their arrogance is supposed to be shown from this situation.  It does get old at some point though.

Edited by wolverine, 12 July 2012 - 08:47 AM.

[Lyanna Stark]

Eejit, on 12 July 2012 - 08:01 AM, said:

Jordan intentionally chose to have the beginning to be reminiscent of the flight from the Shire.
Moiraine is nothing like Gandalf and the female characters are really quite varied. I guess the fact they don't put up, shut up ant let the men do their thing can make them seem 'whiny' or 'bitchy' to some.

You clearly won't enjoy the rest of the series however and apparently don't 'get it' in the slightest, your loss.

Surely you jest?

The female characters are actually just one character, and it's flat and cardboard cut out. Insert some braid tugging, sniffing, lots of ten paragraph description of clothes worries and some female on female spanking and you have WOT.

Further, despite being far more powerful than men, and powerful men having gone crazy for thousands of years, there is no discernable effect on society. In fact, the super powerful Aes Sedai act a lot like immature high school girls of the worst sort, real female friendships are replaced by power struggles. And naturally, when the Hero is attracted to three women at once, they magically agree to share him, because that is only fair. And they become sister wives. I kid you not. Sister wives. And this works as "female friendship". It's enough to make anyone vomitous.

Further, you have Nynaeve, the head braidtugger and sniffer extraordinaire, ending up married to a proper man's man, but since she has more power than him officially, thankfully she needs to be subordinate in private so she's not too uppity. Thank goodness and order is restored.

Then we have the Aiel, where women fight and are stronger and more equal than in other places, but to cancel out this, they also marry the same dude. Sister wives here too. In which they can come together in sisterhood over sharing the same bloke. Lovely, isn't it?

Except it's reactionary enough to make you want to heave.

Edited by Lyanna Stark, 12 July 2012 - 03:12 PM.

[wolverine]

Lyanna Stark, on 12 July 2012 - 08:47 AM, said:

Surely you jest?

The female characters are actually just one character, and it's flat and cardboard cut out. Insert some braid tugging, sniffing, lots of ten paragraph description of clothes worries and some female on female spanking and you ahve WOT.

Further, despite being far more powerful than men, and powerful men having gone crazy for thousands of years, there is no discernable effect on society. In fact, the super powerful Aes Sedai act a lot like immature high school girls of the worst sort, real female friendships are replaced by power struggles. And naturally, when the Hero is attracted to there women at once, they magically agree to share him, becasue that is only fair. And they become sister wives. I kid you not. Sister wives. And this works as "female friendship". It's enough to make anyone vomitous.

Further, you have Nynaeve, the head braidtugger and sniffer extraordinaire, you end up married to a proper man's man, but since she has more power than him officially, thankfully she needs to be subordinate in private so she's not too uppity. Thank goodness and order is restored.

Then we have the Aiel, where women fight and are stronger and more equal than in other places, but to cancel out this, they also marry the same dude. Sister wives here too. In which they can come together in sisterhood over sharing the same bloke. Lovely, isn't it?

Except it's reactionary enough to make you want to heave.

When is Nynaeve subordinate to Lan, or anyone?

They all love Rand and agree to share him because he is tavern! Duh! No deus ex built into his writing at all.

[Stannis the Stern]

Maithanet, on 12 July 2012 - 08:04 AM, said:

If you think books 1-3 are only OK, you should just stop.  The story is tightest and the characters at their least annoying in books 1-5.  Later on, tertiary characters start getting their own chapters and subplots, whole books go by without seeing Mat or Perrin, and when you do see them they're just dealing with the same problems they were two books ago.

Sounds like you might like Abercrombie, it's got plenty of action, enough plot to keep you thinking and overall some enjoyable characters.

Danke, I'll definitely try him out.

[Lyanna Stark]

wolverine, on 12 July 2012 - 08:50 AM, said:

When is Nynaeve subordinate to Lan, or anyone?

They all love Rand and agree to share him because he is tavern! Duh! No deus ex built into his writing at all.

She's supposed to be subordinate in their marriage since she was married by the Seafolk, which means since Nynaeve is a female boss officially, he needs to be the boss, privately, to balance it out.

Stannis the Stern, on 12 July 2012 - 09:07 AM, said:

Danke, I'll definitely try him out.

Abercrombie, Mieville, Daniel Abraham's "The long price quartet" are all excellent choices and all better than WOT. In fact, "The long price.." is among the best SFF I have read, ever.

Edited by Lyanna Stark, 12 July 2012 - 09:12 AM.

[Stannis the Stern]

Why thank you, I will indeed look them up, decreases my waiting time for tWoW.

[Exa Inova]

Lyanna Stark, on 12 July 2012 - 08:47 AM, said:

Surely you jest?

The female characters are actually just one character, and it's flat and cardboard cut out. Insert some braid tugging, sniffing, lots of ten paragraph description of clothes worries and some female on female spanking and you ahve WOT.

Thank goodness it took only 9 posts before sanity kicked in.

[Mikael]

It's flawed in many ways, but I read it at an age where I was much more willing to love a book and be blissfully ignorant of its flaws. I suspect that it always will have a special  place in my little heart.

I wouldn't recommend them to an adult but most likely will to my children.

[awesome possum]

I've been rereading the series in anticipation for the final volume.  The Great Hunt was a bore to me, and I recall it fondly from my youth, but the others so far have been entertaining.  I'm on 5 now, which I've been enjoying more than I recall, but I'm already dreading the sludge through 7-10.

Also, what Lyanna said.  The female characterization is absolutely horrific in this series.  They're all basically the same character, with the exception of Min, because she dresses like a boy, so she's different!  When I get to an Elayne/Nynaeve/Egwene chapter I inwardly cringe because it's just bad writing half the time.  Their stories can be entertaining, but the characters are just shit.

[Zach H]

I prefer to think of Eye of the World as a stand alone.  For me Jordan was much better at breezy fun run-away-from-the-orclocs adventure than he was at the sprawling chronicle.

[Jon WintryMix]

I don't remember many specifics about the series because it has been more than 12 years since I started it.  Generally though, I thought it was terribly derivative of many other fantasy novels.  It was chock-full of cliches, the characters were thin and the dialog was hackneyed.  Overall, pretty weak.

ASOFAI is much, much stronger in all categories.