47 replies to this topic

[Adelstein]

There was a point in the books - I forget which - where (iirc) Jaime overhears some soldiers talking about killing the Hound and mentally raises an eyebrow. He has a lot of time for Sandor's abilities: he's not just big and strong but apparently freakishly fast as well. Gregor isn't as skilled or as fast but his size and reach make up for that.

Assuming that Jaime was talking about swordsmanship and not including other forms of combat, then I'd imagine he'd be talking about Barristan and the Cleganes. Oberyn seems to specialise in other weapons, and Loras is foremost a jouster. I don't expect he even knows who Bronn is (although I don't think Bronn is quite as good as some fans would suggest anyway) and the qualities of Garlan Tyrell seem relatively obscure even in-world.

Or, you know, Darkstar.

[The King of Worms]

Lord Hound, on 16 July 2012 - 08:14 AM, said:

The Hound
The Mountain That Rides
Ser Barristan Selmy

I think those are the ones that Jaime would pick. He respected Barristan a lot from back in the day. He seems to fear the Hound a little, and respects Clegane for his size.
I think guys from the North like the Half-hand or Mance Raydar aren't even on his radar. He looks down on all Northerners and the Wall. And guys like Bronn he doesn't even notice. He's not like Tyrion... he's stupidly snobbish like his sister.
I think Brienne, Halfhand, Bronn, Mance and others could beat Jaime on a good day. I personally didn't like his lame little boast.

[Swiftraven]

I think it's the Cleganes and Barristan to be honest. I know that both Gregor and Sandor rely heavily on brute force but Jaime says that Sandor is actually very quick in combat and of course Gregor would probably stand a chance at defeating anybody really. And even though Jaime has a big ego, I think he simply has too much respect for Ser Barristan to say that he wouldn't stand a chance against him.

I don't think Loras is one of them because even though Jaime recognizes his skill (and that he is basically Jaime when he was younger) he never views Loras as an equal swordsman. He even tells him that he was stronger, faster and better at his age in Feast IIRC. And Garlan is described as the better swordsman of the two Tyrell brothers anyway.

[Blutrabe]

I didn't think of Mance Rayder. That man is a swordmaster.

Edited by Blutrabe, 07 August 2012 - 04:30 PM.

[Ramsay Blow]

Yes. The Cleganes and Whitebeard. I think if Jaimie fought Bronn in his prime it would be a massacre with Jaime the victor.

[Lannister Hamster]

In the world of the tv series I think it's:

1. Ser Barristan (definitely)

and probably

The Mountain
Loras Tyrell

I guess alternatively the Hound but in tv land I would think only those 4 characters

[Rolex Baratheon]

Guys, Sandor is most probably a better fighter than Gregor. Only about a foot shorter than Gregor who's eight feet tall and is apparently extremely fast as well. So for a small difference in brute strength, Sandor has a great advantage in speed over Gregor.

[King of the Road]

Sandor Clegane

Bronn

Ser Barristan Selmy

[fat pink maester]

Let's not forget Sandor fought off Gregor's apparent kill strikes at the Hand's tourney, helmetless, while not fighting back.

Would Jaime know about Donal Noye from before the wall? Guy killed a giant as a fat old out-of-practice smith... and he made Bob's hammer and fought in loads of battles.

I think Jaime had a certain respect for King Bob, otherwise he might've tried a little harder to defend his sister's honour (assuming Bob honoured her frequently).

Also, outside bet: Thoros - won the tourney, battles aplenty and first through the greyjoy wall.

Just thought of him now: Victarion - sailed into lannisport and burned the lannister fleet, so Jaime must have some idea of him, although whether this extends to his fighting skill is just a guess.

[Masamune]

King of the Road, on 13 August 2012 - 01:32 PM, said:

Sandor Clegane

Bronn

Ser Barristan Selmy

Does Jaime even know who Bronn is?

[Lannister Hamster]

Masamune, on 13 August 2012 - 05:11 PM, said:

Does Jaime even know who Bronn is?

I would say definitely not.

It has to be 3 knights or well renowned individuals that he knows - and I would say at least 2 have to be mentioned on tv since Jamie said this on tv and not in the book

[lmanion]

It has been said a few times that this is something he only says on the show. He wouldn't know who Bronn is, he probably has an idea that Brienne beat Loras and that Loras is mainly good in the joust. He looks down on northerners, old King Bob was better with the hammer than a sword and dead besides, the red viper hasnt been mentioned yet and fights with a spear. Thoros is possible and has been mentioned by Jaime but his ability is mostly said to be his flaming sword and Jaime only has respect for one of his brothers in the Kingsguard, former LC Barristan Selmy.

I would say the 3 are Selmy, and the Cleganes

[The Gr33ns33r]

Arthur Dayne. But he's dead D':.

Selmy, but he is quite old now. Although he is a great swordsman - he's over sixty In Westeros! (Age badly, no medicine.. etc).

Loras Tyrell - he has youth on his hands. Although Jaime isn't old yet (Only mind 30s), Loras is young and fit.

The Hound - Sandor might be able to. He has strength, agility and practice. But he's a large target. Still considered large next to his brother.

[Zod]

A bit off-topic, but how would Eddard Stark's sword-fighting skills compare to Ser Barristan Selmy and to Jaime Lannister?

[PrettySweet]

He was obviously referring to Barristan as one of the three.

As for the other two...probably the Clegane brothers. Even Jaime acknowledges in ASoS that both Cleganes are stronger than he is...but with "speed and skill he could best them all." I don't think he was aware of Garlan's skill at the time so I would rule him out. And you have to evaluate what he says even more. He said they'd have a "chance", not that they could beat him. I personally feel that no one could beat Jaime prior to him losing his hand.

[PrettySweet]

Zod, on 22 September 2012 - 11:54 AM, said:

A bit off-topic, but how would Eddard Stark's sword-fighting skills compare to Ser Barristan Selmy and to Jaime Lannister?

He was obviously very good in his youth. The whole thing that went down at the Tower of Joy attests to that. He at least went toe to toe with Arthur Dayne for a little while, at least holding him off until Howland Reed stepped in. I just disliked the scene in the show where he fights Jaime on equal footing. I don't believe that around the time GoT takes place that he can hang with Jaime anymore, but the show makes it seem like he can. I think a combination of old age and him being rusty deteriorated his skills to the point where he was just above average at that point.

[Adelstein]

Well, it's worth bearing in mind that in book terms Ned was only two or three years older than Jaime and only about thirty-five at the time of that fight. By that point it's unlikely his abilities would have seriously declined through old age; he might be a little rusty, but Jaime is likely to be too. Neither of them has fought an actual battle for a while and both of them will have been sparring with competent masters-at-arms.

It's also entirely possible that Jaime wasn't fighting to the best of his ability and was being more wary than normal. He's always been a little wary of Ned, ever since that moment with the Iron Throne, and he's aware that Ned is experienced enough not to fall for something like the trick he used to take out Jory. He also has no experience of watching Ned fight, so doesn't know if Ned has any particular favourite moves. Given a little longer, I suspect Jaime would have beaten him, but going toe to toe for a few blows isn't too unrealistic, I think.

Although for what it's worth, I always liked the ambiguity of the books, and how we can't assess Ned's capabilities because we never see him fight. The duel with Jaime kind of detracted from that, but I can see why it was felt necessary for television. Obviously, too, screen Ned is older than book Ned, but that's another adaptation issue (like TVStannis). In this context age means more experience as much as it means slower reflexes.

[The Tower of Joy]

I would say:

Selmy
The Red Viper
The Hound

[Shadow on the Wall]

^The Red Viper is a spearmen.


Two of the the three swordsmen are clearly Barristan Selmy and Gregor Clegane. I think it likely that Sandor Clegane is the third.


Wrt the battle with Ned, I didn't like how Ned and Jaime were sparring as equals - I think it would have been better if Jaime was having ever so slightly the upper hand, but it was still an awesome scene. That said, the scene wasn't implausible - the fight wasn't long and it's possible that Jaime was simply being careful and respecting his opponent as Adelstein said.


Adelstein? That sounds very similar to my name. It couldn't be Adelbert Steiner...could it?

EDIT: Probably not. Turns out Adelstein is actually a genuine name of an actor!

Edited by steiner, 27 November 2012 - 08:06 PM.

[Lannister Hamster]

Its probably only one of the Cleganes. I'd guess the third is Loras Tyrell - who I know isn't in the book, but its likely in the show he is an amalgamation of Loras and his supremely talented brother.