tubbletian, on 16 July 2012 - 09:01 PM, said:
I'm really intrigued by this, I always put it down to Tywin's genius planning, but if someone could point out specifics in AFfC/anywhere that made them think twice? I hate the idea that there was any sort of magic behind the conception of the RW, because I feel that would cheapen the whole thing.
Basically, Jaime's chapters at Riverrun suggest that something is amiss with the whole thing.
-Catelyn describes Jeyne's hips as wide, but Jaime describes them as narrow.
-The Blackfish tells Jaime that he swore to defend Robb's queen, yet he bails in the middle of the night and leaves her? Please.
-Sybell tells Jaime that Jeyne was beaten for not giving up her crown, yet we (and Jaime) never see this crown and it's never mentioned again. It's not surrendered to Jaime.
-The Stark sigil still flies over Riverrun, and is taken down during the night, not
when the castle formally surrenders. If it's acting as a residency banner, its lowering could signify, subtly, that the queen (and possibly the heir) is gone.
-We only have Sybell's word for it that she gave Jeyne contraception. There's no actual proof.
-Jeyne shreds her clothes and takes pains to keep her face hidden on the road west, possibly to prevent people from recognizing her.
-Jeyne's sister is not on the inventory and isn't mentioned at all when Jaime meets Sybell, even though she should be there.
-What happened with Raynald should show that the Westerlings weren't as "in" with Tywin as some might think.
Here's what I think happened. Sybell and her brother are
scheming, but Jeyne and her siblings are not. I think that Sybell actually did give Jeyne fertility potion, knowing that if she did get pregnant, she could always give her moon tea to terminate it if she had to. Basically, she played both sides with the whole thing: If Robb won, Jeyne had a good chance of being pregnant, and if he lost, Jeyne's pregnancy could be terminated and no one would be the wiser.
I think that Jeyne, her sister, Edmure and the Blackfish schemed together when Edmure went in to negotiate the surrender. They smuggled Jeyne out, without Sybell's knowledge. Sybell beat her younger daughter (which is how she really got the marks that Jaime sees), but she couldn't let Jaime know that Jeyne escaped, so she was forced to play along. Sybell could also tell Jaime that she gave Jeyne moon tea, because there was no chance that her sister was going to turn up pregnant.
Edited by Apple Martini, 16 July 2012 - 09:14 PM.