434 replies to this topic

[corbon]

aryana, on 31 July 2012 - 02:07 PM, said:

I don't think Wylla ever saw Winterfell. I think it was another woman, a random wet nurse Ned hired after Starfall and she might not even got back south. She just probably stayed in the North somewhere. Surely Ned wouldn't bring home a child and his mother. Catelyn recalls she found Jon and a wet nurse when she had come to Winterfell and I bet she didn't just ignore her, she must've questioned her, tried to find some clues, anything - but couldn't because the woman knew nothing.

Wylla isn't the mother - only Robert thinks so, Ned never says it, so that objection isn't relevant. But Robert must have heard about her from somewhere (he says he never met her) and she would be a lot more 'remarkable' sticking out at Winterfell than just at Starfall.
And Catelyn probably did question the wetnurse, but not getting answers does not have to equate to not knowing anything. Ned shut her questioning down (note that the results of her questions are thoughts that Ashara is the mother, and probably sent Wylla back to Starfall ASAP.

It is by no means sure that Wylla went to Winterfell, but it makes a lot more sense that she did, than Ned unnecessarily changed wetnurses at Starfall and Robert somehow knows about the wetnurse who was only used from ToJ to Starfall. And none of the objections raised about Wylla going to Winterfell actually follow through.

[booknerd2]

It is just interesting that 2 out of 3 rumors for Jon's mother are both affiliated with House Dayne.

I asked the question earlier because I believe that Jon's parents are Rhaegar and Lyanna, but as far as the aftermath of Tower of Joy and afterwards, those Daynes sure helped out Ned Stark.

I am still debating some stuff for Arthur Dayne.

And I think that it is amazing that Wylla kept quiet. And I think Ashara knows and might even have worked something out with Ned to arrange the wet nurse and kept his secret. Maybe she did fake her death and is Lemore. She knew Brandon and Ned. Though wouldn't she be pissed that Arthur died at the tower? That is where it gets head-scratchy for me.  And Allyria...all we know about is her very, very long engagement to Dondarrion.

Something is up. There is always brief mention, but consistent mentions or info about the Daynes in the books. They pop up all throughout, almost like don't forget them.

I can't wait to find out the whole R&L and TOJ info, because I think most of the theories and speculations that have majority consensus on the threads are correct, but I think there might be some surprises too, and the Daynes are more involved then we know so far.

[rmholt]

booknerd2, on 31 July 2012 - 08:59 PM, said:

It is just interesting that 2 out of 3 rumors for Jon's mother are both affiliated with House Dayne.

I asked the question earlier because I believe that Jon's parents are Rhaegar and Lyanna, but as far as the aftermath of Tower of Joy and afterwards, those Daynes sure helped out Ned Stark.

I am still debating some stuff for Arthur Dayne.

And I think that it is amazing that Wylla kept quiet. And I think Ashara knows and might even have worked something out with Ned to arrange the wet nurse and kept his secret. Maybe she did fake her death and is Lemore. She knew Brandon and Ned. Though wouldn't she be pissed that Arthur died at the tower? That is where it gets head-scratchy for me.  And Allyria...all we know about is her very, very long engagement to Dondarrion.

Something is up. There is always brief mention, but consistent mentions or info about the Daynes in the books. They pop up all throughout, almost like don't forget them.

the Daynes are more involved then we know so far.

The Daynes also have (possibly) dragonsteel which could become very important.  Whoever controls that sword may control the outcome of the upcoming conflict with Others.

[booknerd2]

Oh, yeah.

And if they know about Jon and are on good terms with the Starks. Seem like they are some of the most loyal and trustworthy people in Westeros.

Its a plus for the Starks and Jon. And of course for everyone against the Others.

But there may be one or two people that can confrm who John is besides Reed of course too.

The Dayns are a well of resources here.

[ser naes yennet]

kinda related is something i have been wondering since my re-read of book 2.

when Igritte tells Jon the story of Bael the bard, and his wife/lover throwing herself off a tower in grief over the death of a loved one, i noticed a lot of similiarities with the ToJ story and Ashara supposedly doing the same. knowing how GRRM loves to have parallel characters and story arcs, can anyone see anymore similiarities and maybe foreshading of the ToJ or more info to come?

[corbon]

booknerd2, on 31 July 2012 - 08:59 PM, said:

And I think that it is amazing that Wylla kept quiet.

People say this, but I don't understand why. Would they expect Old Nan, or Mikken, to spill all the Stark Secrets for Lannister gold?
The Starks are not the only family who are likely to have loyal retainers. And Wylla does appear to have been well treated by the Daynes. Why would she betray them, or the Starks, if R+L=J?

booknerd2, on 31 July 2012 - 08:59 PM, said:

Though wouldn't she be pissed that Arthur died at the tower? That is where it gets head-scratchy for me.  

Why? He died doing his job. His death was more or less inevitable, due to the nature of his job, which he received great honour for, once Rhaegar lost at the Trident.
Most people understand that people die in wars, and doing dangerous jobs. Nutbags like Rickard Karstark are the exception, not the rule. There is no reason why Ashara Dayne should be pissed that Ser Arthur died fulfilling his vows.

booknerd2, on 31 July 2012 - 08:59 PM, said:

And Allyria...all we know about is her very, very long engagement to Dondarrion.

The most common reason for long engagements is the extreme youth of one or other party - and Beric is in his early 20s, so his age is not the reason.
Thus it probably indicates that Allyria is still quite young (given that Beric is in his early 20s) - possibly not even born, or a very small child, during Harrenhal and/or Robert's Rebellion.
Thus it is also quite likely that she knows virtually nothing of such events other than 'family history' and servants gossip.

ETA: We are perhaps getting into 'should be in a thread' territory here, not small questions. SO perhaps best to take this elsewhere after this, if you want to continue to explore it..

Edited by corbon, 31 July 2012 - 10:49 PM.

[booknerd2]

For the first thing, I think many might have what I have. Series paranoia. So many characters wouldn't keep a secret and do terrrible things, and it is such a big secret, so I really have to give props to Wylla. Even sometimes people slip with secrets without meaning too, she gets this repuation for sleeping with Ned Stark and having her kid taken away, I give her props for going along with it. Or maybe she had no choice? Sometimes people don't keep secrets if they think they are doing the right thing in revealing it too. Hopefully, we find out more about Wylla.

For the second thing, I was just thinking why no strain? Er, Ned and Howland get out, Arthur dies, and Ashara and Wylla, in her service, help Ned to keep this huge secret. Possibly even faking her death. A lot of questions here. Maybe she really liked Brandon or Ned or both or felt for the baby. Or if Arthur is supporting Rhaegar and the infant is Rhaegar's that is good enough for her to go on and help?

And the third thing. It is not about the lenght of engagement time. To me, I always felt sorry for Allyria, because I thought of Jeyne Poole saying how handsome Beric was and here is poor Allyria engaged to him for a long time, then he is er, half-dead, revived several times, and then he dies. Just wonder if she had any idea what the hell happend to her fiance and if she will be engaged to someone else now. Edric is with the other faction of BWB so maybe he got word to her.

I won't post here anymore either. I asked that question and then others commented and it seems like people have questions and things to say. I would start a thread but what to call it? There are a few Dayne threads going around. The Wylla thread???

By all means, if you want to start one, go ahead. I still have stuff I was wondering about.

Edited by booknerd2, 01 August 2012 - 12:11 AM.

[Black Wolf Smith]

booknerd2, on 01 August 2012 - 12:08 AM, said:

For the first thing, I think many might have what I have. Series paranoia. So many characters wouldn't keep a secret and do terrrible things, and it is such a big secret, so I really have to give props to Wylla. Even sometimes people slip with secrets without meaning too, she gets this repuation for sleeping with Ned Stark and having her kid taken away, I give her props for going along with it. Or maybe she had no choice? Sometimes people don't keep secrets if they think they are doing the right thing in revealing it too. Hopefully, we find out more about Wylla.

For the second thing, I was just thinking why no strain? Er, Ned and Howland get out, Arthur dies, and Ashara and Wylla, in her service, help Ned to keep this huge secret. Possibly even faking her death. A lot of questions here. Maybe she really liked Brandon or Ned or both or felt for the baby. Or if Arthur is supporting Rhaegar and the infant is Rhaegar's that is good enough for her to go on and help?

And the third thing. It is not about the lenght of engagement time. To me, I always felt sorry for Allyria, because I thought of Jeyne Poole saying how handsome Beric was and here is poor Allyria engaged to him for a long time, then he is er, half-dead, revived several times, and then he dies. Just wonder if she had any idea what the hell happend to her fiance and if she will be engaged to someone else now. Edric is with the other faction of BWB so maybe he got word to her.

I won't post here anymore either. I asked that question and then others commented and it seems like people have questions and things to say. I would start a thread but what to call it? There are a few Dayne threads going around. The Wylla thread???

By all means, if you want to start one, go ahead. I still have stuff I was wondering about.

There is are theories that Dayne did not die at TOJ and that Ned AD and HR worked out a deal.

[pitakon]

do westerosi eat chicken? why is it only 1 person who loves to hunt? Are there any definitive fauna and flora guide to westeros? can't really remember people feeding of the land. mostly domesticated food.

[dragontamer]

Is it possible to estimate Tyrion's whereabouts at the time of maester Aemon's death? Had he fled KL? Was it prior or after his capture by Jorah?
Thanks

Edited by dragontamer, 01 August 2012 - 03:32 AM.

[Davos' fingertip]

what do you think this war will be called at the end? The war of the five kings seems an inaccurate name for this whole story. Now that there's more then just those five kings, and the white walkers/dragons are going to be part of the war. The War of the Umpteen Kings amidst Ice and Fire?

[Zabuza]

pitakon, on 01 August 2012 - 12:43 AM, said:

do westerosi eat chicken? why is it only 1 person who loves to hunt? Are there any definitive fauna and flora guide to westeros? can't really remember people feeding of the land. mostly domesticated food.

Capon is a castrated rooster, so yes.

Well it's all to do with hunting rights in whoever owns the forest, the King hunts wherever he damn well pleases, killng a stag in someone elses forest could result in a turf war.

There is some kind of appendix book coming out soon, I don't know if it will have flora/fauna, but the people working on it also run this site IIRC.

Most people get food where they can find it, mostly peasants will be eating crops, stews, and soups (bowl o' brown anyone?), and well we know what the Nobles feast on based on Tyrion's extensive faste breaking scenes. Also the boars are probably all hogzilla sized, even small wild boar can be VERY dangerous (thats why boar dogs wear kevlar in our world). With medicine not the best, an injury from a boar or any other wild animal can be fatal or cause loss of limb.

I could see Anguy taking down some deer and pheasant, for all we know hes the one who provides most of the hunting for BwB.

Edited by Zabuza, 01 August 2012 - 03:54 AM.

[Faceless Horse]

Can anyone clarify something for me please? If Lysa Tully killed Jon Arryn, what motivation would Ser Gregor have for killing Ser Hugh of the Vale? Just plain old badness?

[kissdbyfire]

Faceless Horse, on 01 August 2012 - 04:38 AM, said:

Can anyone clarify something for me please? If Lysa Tully killed Jon Arryn, what motivation would Ser Gregor have for killing Ser Hugh of the Vale? Just plain old badness?

It could very well be. GRRM has said something like that in a recent interview, something along the lines of, 'The Mountain is a murderous  beast, he doesn't need to be told to kill people'. I don't have the exact quote here, but you can look it up at the Citadel or on the thread.

[EgoistMusketeer]

How can Darkstar be the next sword of the morning if he is of the night?