End of Disc One Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 I found Messiah to be enjoyable but certainly smaller and less epic than Dune. Children mostly bored me aside from a few awesome developments. I plan to read God Emperor because of these developments. It looks really interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Castel Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 Messiah was good. Children and everything past it got progressively more boring.The books by Kevin J. Anderson (who took time off from destroying the Star Wars universe) were semi-good generic Machine War books with slapped on Dune names to sell them. Don't read them because honestly, they have little to do with the series, thematically or otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferrum Aeternum Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 I enjoyed the hell out of the first, enjoyed the second to a slightly lesser extent, and so on up to God Emperor of Dune, which I still, after decades, find wonderful. Not everyone agrees with me.The rest of them by Frank Herbert I enjoyed to a lesser degree, but they were still so unusual and compelling that I do recommend them, just not as unequivocably as I do the first.This is pretty much me - I too enjoyed God Emperor more than the prior two. To this day it's one of strangest stories I've ever read but I found it oddly epic and compelling. I can see how some would despise it - to say the book is introspective would be a vast understatement.I found Heretics difficult to get into (plus a lot was going on in my life at the time) so I never finished it or read any of Chapterhouse...need to give them another shot.Never read any of his son's books, though most everyone agrees they're dreck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lokisnow Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 Dune is fabulous in part because it is such a superb blend of philosophy, metaphysics, pulp, action, adventure and world building.Dune Messiah, Children of Dune and God Emperor of Dune feel like a trilogy, with the first two of these three books setting up GEoD, easily the most polarizing book of the series (some Dune afficionados consider GEoD to be the pinnacle of Herbert's career, the series etc). Dune Messiah, rather than being a superb lend, is mostly about the philosophy.Children of Dune, rather than being a superb blend is mostly about the action & adventure. In a sense it's a perversion of the 'farmboy' mythos, in which the not so secret prince goes on a journey and siezes his destiny & birthright after 'powering up' through training or whatever. God Emperor of Dune, rather than being a superb blend, is mostly about the metaphysics, politics, and philosophy of the Dune universe, it's pretty light on action, adventure, or pulp, but much is explained, iirc. It also sets up the second trilogy...Heretics, Chapterhouse and the final, unfinished volume, would have comprised a new story set. These books are much more pulpy (I remember there being lots of sex, but I was a teen when I read them, so my perception may have been skewed), and have some spectacular action and adventure. There's quite a bit of politics and a lot more world building (after Dune, the next three books really did very little world building) in these books and the characters are more active, fascinating and compelling than the 'chess piece' characters of books 2, 3 & 4. Part of the point of those three books 'theme' is in allowing humans to have more control over their own destiny, so that humanity is not so controlled by prescience and fate, so it makes sense that the characters improve. The metaphysics and philosophy make a sideways shift as well, which promised an incredible payoff for the final never-written volume. But because these two books have much more action and adventure, the metaphysics and philosophy seem a lot less prominent than they felt in the previous three books. So these latter two books, as a better blend, are most reminescent of the first Dune. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tears of Lys Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 I can't remember which one it was, I think it was either Heretics or Chapterhouse - probably Heretics - but wasn't there quite a bit of wrangling over who would pop the latest Duncan Idaho's cherry so that his memories would reawaken? He was quite young at the time, too. The Intrawebs weren't around when I read it the first time, so I don't know if there was an outcry over how "double-standard" it was (a la Kvothe and Felurian in Wise Man's Fear.):dunno: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Castel Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 I can't remember which one it was, I think it was either Heretics or Chapterhouse - probably Heretics - but wasn't there quite a bit of wrangling over who would pop the latest Duncan Idaho's cherry so that his memories would reawaken? He was quite young at the time, too. The Intrawebs weren't around when I read it the first time, so I don't know if there was an outcry over how "double-standard" it was (a la Kvothe and Felurian in Wise Man's Fear.) :dunno:I thought that that was Miles Teg in the final book? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tears of Lys Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 That's the equasion!:P Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Uncle P Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 yeah, scot's right: volumes V and VI are good. II is weakest of the bunch. III has its moments, but, yaknow, jacurutu. bleh. IV is an acquired taste. volume 2 is shorter than the others and feels rushed, suddenly someone realised she was in love with someone else all along (spoiler tags not working). Book 4, God Emperor is unique and at times beautiful and is my favourite along with the first. tried reading some of the son's spew, set 10,000 years before Muad'Dib, infantile fanfic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sasha Steelsong Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 The books written by Frank Herbert himself are all good I think to varying degrees, the fourth is an aquired taste but I like it. The Brian Herbert/Kevin J. Anderson books are ok in the beginning when they deal with Leto's (Paul's father's) early years and the Butlarian Jihad that happened thousands of years before the original series takes place. It was nice to find out about why the Emperor let all the stuff at the beginning of Dune happen and about how it all got started even if the quality of writing was more like an airplane book than the very deep thought provoking writing of FH. The second they touch the actual series that Frank Herbert wrote, I think it is fair to say they take the dead horse, beat it, skin it, beat it again and then shit on it such that it taints the other prequels they wrote which were each a stand-alone trilogy (One for Leto and one for the Jihad) just by the fact that they were written by the same people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awesome possum Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 The Dune series continued after Children of Dune? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Scot A Ellison Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 AP,Yes, I enjoyed FH's follow ons to Children of Dune quite a lot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grack21 Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 Kevin J. Anderson is the anti-christ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Centrist Simon Steele Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 Didn't those dudes write the last part of the series after Chapterhouse based on "notes" Herbert left behind? And if so is it worth it to read that one to close the series. I never read Heretics or Chapterhouse but I am definitely going to do it before the end of the year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grack21 Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 If by 'notes' you mean 'lies we made up so we could take fans money', then yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Serious Callers Only Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 Dune is kinda of a strange series. It sets out all of these theories about sexuality (kinda of a dirty old man book, my favourite is the wild orgasm from conflicted betrayal in GEoD) and other things like 'secret languages', 'it''s better to have a all woman's army since at least they won't rape all the time' and since it's so much of a authors tract, that stuff gets sort-of-a-pass amidst all of the anecdotes and musings. My favourite sequences turned out to be the ones where he had to stretch a little beyond that, like the sequence where some bene geseritt try to kill him with a bit of slyness (the spice essence) but he's sort cool about it, since it was interesting, or the 'duel of visions' with Paul&Leto on dune's children.Then there was the stuff that after reading the series ten times you can't help but notice as bad. Foremost among that is Duncan of course, but also the nonsensical honoured matres (at least the bene geseritt were rounded), the strange hermetic religion/unlikely fanaticism of the Tlelaxu, the bit with Sheena that went nowhere, the 'Alia-transformation' from dune messiah toward the 'necessary' villain in dune's children, some stuff in dune and most of all the shift towards physical 'magic' abilities at the end of the series.Also, obviously, after GEoD, the series had lost it's primary plot - it wasn't so much about the 'destiny of the species' as much as 'what are those kooky ladies in the core systems up to now'.I admit i liked the shift of focus towards the Bene Geseritt though, very entertaining cattiness 8) (in a passive aggressive way) and 'deep navel-gazing'oh yeah, whole post is secret now- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grack21 Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 Uh, spoilers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Scot A Ellison Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 I love the Bene Gesserit. They make the "Aes Sedai" look like children. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Serious Callers Only Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 I'd would have liked a true AI machine intelligence theme in the dune universe if it was done like i suspect he could do it. I know he avoided that theme in the books (i suspect it wasn't so much a lack of interest, or the thematic consistency of the quasi-medieval setting so much as a feeling of 'not-doing-it-justice'). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthmail Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 I think that having the series happen over a lenght of time was an interesting thought, but by removing the main characters like Paul, it removed a great deal of the emotional connection that was developed in the first book. Paul's ability to see the future could have been reduced to still make him a vulnerable character, and the series could have continued on a little further with him in the front seat. Subsequent books were good, but there was something about Paul Atriedes that was bad ass and should have been carried on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baitac Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 I liked Dune. As to the others, some are good, others not so much. Once I started, I knew I was committed to the series. I hated the movie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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