66 replies to this topic

[Triskele]

Well, I finally finished the original Dune last night for the first time.  I don't think I'm going to continue.  Some of the ideas were cool, but the writing was pretty weak, the characterization nearly non-existent, and the plot moved around in strange ways with lots of really minimal description of what was going on.

I do need to finish the Lynch movie just to see how much the weirdness continues.

Edited by Triskele, 25 December 2012 - 03:36 PM.

[gmavridis]

The original six books that Frank Herbert wrote is one of the best SF series ever. He created a world and a SF hype. The only one that did such a thing before Herbert in my opinion was Asimov.
The first new trilogy that his son  "wrote" was not bad, but it was not as good as the original.
The second trilogy was trying to wrap up the main events that lead humanity to ban the thinking machines. They wanted to create a new mythology around Dune universe but it did not work very well.
The last two books that were "written" by his son, was supposed to be after the notes that Frank left. Well the problem is that they messed with the original heroes of the original Dune novels and tey linked them with their prequels. That in my opinion destroyed the amazing finale of the original Dune novels creating a hybrid that reminds me a himaira.

[gmavridis]

Triskele, on 25 December 2012 - 03:35 PM, said:

I do need to finish the Lynch movie just to see how much the weirdness continues.

Lynch made a wonderful movie but it does not apply to the original Dune novel. See the series instead if you want to have an impression of how the Dune world was supposed to be.
In his defence Lynch's original filming was for a 4 plus hour movie and he had to cut the movie to reach an acceptable duration for the movie theaters.

[Black Wolf Smith]

gmavridis, on 27 December 2012 - 03:57 PM, said:

Lynch made a wonderful movie but it does not apply to the original Dune novel. See the series instead if you want to have an impression of how the Dune world was supposed to be.
In his defence Lynch's original filming was for a 4 plus hour movie and he had to cut the movie to reach an acceptable duration for the movie theaters.

So wonder in fact that he had his name removed from it.

[Dr. Tachyon]

Triskele, on 25 December 2012 - 03:35 PM, said:

I do need to finish the Lynch movie just to see how much the weirdness continues.

The Lynch movie isn't true to the books, and it doesn't go past the first volume anyway.

[kalbear]

The lynch movie is pretty close to the books. Certainly the themes if not the full events. It's a lot like the lotr adaptation in accuracy.

The first three dune books are quite good. The fourth is fairly stupid. The fifth and sixth are interesting but deeply flawed.

[Serious Callers Only]

The fourth is the most interesting because it eschews convention and is is basically a very self-centered book

But you're probably objecting to the various more-or-less bullshit theories that Leto is always postulating on that book. And the spontanous orgasm. And gary stu 'not a stud' Duncan. And the lame 'romance', that seems more like ideation (but that's the point).

Personally, i think second (the lame 'council of villains') or third is the weakest, due to Alia's lazy villain, thou it has interesting parts, like the duel of visions and Duncan's 2nd death. If taken in parts, i think the absolute nadir of the series is on the penultimate book, when super hero 'significant name' Miles kills a whole province with his new superpowers. Sure, there were physical 'superpowers' on the series before, from the Bene Gesserit to the Face Dancers, passing the Fremen and Sardukar and even the HM on the very last book. But nothing like that.
Also the resurrection and reinforcement of the sexual servitude drug theme was probably unfortunate.

On the other hand, i very much liked those books focusing on the Bene Gesserit, but i always liked them more or less. They had the strongest scene on GEoD too. What can i tell? I'm a sucker for bickering and pseudo-historical rationalizations, which is probably why i like GEoD in spite of it's bad parts. There was not enough bickering there thou.

The next planned book was probably some kind of facedancer conquest / dune personalities revival on facedancers/ghola bodies.
I'm not one to give thanks that a book was not written, but this would have me nervous. There was a potentially interesting part with the 'language of the world', 'the pearls of awareness', and the apparent jungian literalism on some parts but i think the potential for wizbang superpowah freakout would be high. Besides the Bene Gesserit were being 'corrupted' ;_;

Edited by Serious Callers Only, 29 December 2012 - 11:15 PM.