Jon and Sansa's relationship?

[ARYa_Nym]

Arya did call him half brother and did not consider him a wolf. She would rather be with him than the Starks though.

In there she was Arya of Winterfell, the daughter of Lord Eddard Stark and Lady Catelyn, who had once had brothers named Robb and Bran and Rickon, a sister named Sansa, a direwolf called Nymeria, a half brother named Jon Snow

If Sansa was gone too, there were no more Starks but her. Jon was on the Wall a thousand leagues away, but he was a Snow, and these different aunts and uncles the Hound wanted to sell her to, they weren't Starks either. They weren't wolves.

Arya missed Jon most of all. Just saying his name made her sad.”

I think the AGoT comment was more about Sansa saying that Jon gets jealous because he's a bastard. When she says he's our brother it's not because Sansa didn't know it but rather because she doesn't that said of Jon.

Jon does it too though because when he was with Ygritte he asked if Arya was ever really his sister since he had no more place at Winterfell than Theon Greyjoy.

[ARYa_Nym]

Someone, I think Arya_Nym has actually presented some evidence for Jon being squicked by incest (or maybe not as squicked as he ought to be). I think it was Ygritte related.

You know, just to add my own bit of derailment. :)

Well, I wasn't using it for evidence that he wanted to stick Arya with his pointy end just that he was a little off. Dany would be best for an incestuous relationship because they're strangers and if Dany fights wars with Drogon she will be a warrior woman who doesn't need a knight to rescue her.

He compared her to Ygritte several times and 2 of those times he wondered what Ygritte's body was like in the same sentence.

"...short for her age...Her shaggy mop of red hair stuck out in all directions. She looked plump as she crouched there, but most of that was layers of fur and wool and leather. Underneath all that she could be as skinny as Arya."

“Ygritte said stubbornly. Jon had never met anyone so stubborn, except maybe for his little sister Arya…”

"She reminded him a little of his sister Arya, though Arya was younger and probably skinnier. It was hard to tell how plump or thin Ygritte might be, with all the furs and skins she wore."[/

"Something about her made him think of Arya, though they looked nothing alike."

& when Ygritte asked him if he would sleep with his sister he just ignored the question. He didn't deny it or show disgust.

“She punched him, “That’s vile. Would you bed your sister?” “Longspear’s not your brother.” “He’s of my village. You know nothing, Jon Snow. A true man steals a woman from afar, t’strengthen the clan. Women who bed brothers or fathers or clan kin offend the gods, and are cursed with weak and sickly children. Even monsters.” “Craster weds his daughters,” Jon pointed. She punched him again. “Craster’s more your kind than ours. His father was a crow who stole a woman out of Whitetree village…”

That's not to say that he wants to sleep with one of his sisters but rather that he's a Targaryen and they can be a litle off when it comes to these type of things.

Jon/Sansa wouldn't work because she's not his type and looks like Catelyn. Arya/Jon wouldn't work since they were raised together he's not going to see her in a sexual light. Dany however is fair game because she's a stranger.

[NotSoSilentSister]

I disagree, some of the girls I grew up close to are attractive, I even dated one for a bit, didnt work out but it shows you can be attracted to people you grew up with.

How close? We are talking about living under the same roof together here.... not the quite the same as the Neighbour girl or a Kindergarten crush.

I guess most people would agree that a romance between Arya and Jon would be immensly incestuous and I don't see how Sansa would be so different. Sure, she might have been a bit snobby to him and "less close", but she definitely sees him as a brother. now. (Also, Sansa and Jon are closer in age; that might also account for some of the tension - with silblings that are closer in age you sometimes go through periods of antagonism - doesn't change anything about the brotherly/sisterly bond that you form, whether you feel particularly close to each other at a given time or not).

[NotSoSilentSister]

The reverse of the Westermarck-effect by the way is genetic sexual attraction: Relatives who for some reason are _not_ raised together but meet later in life, often end up very strongly attracted to each other and are likely to interpret that attraction as sexual. That could be an argument for a Dany/Jon pairing, if R+L=J. (God, I hope not, for some reason I really dislike the idea. It just seems so pat).

[ARYa_Nym]

The reverse of the Westermarck-effect by the way is genetic sexual attraction: Relatives who for some reason are _not_ raised together but meet later in life, often end up very strongly attracted to each other and are likely to interpret that attraction as sexual. That could be an argument for a Dany/Jon pairing, if R+L=J. (God, I hope not, for some reason I really dislike the idea. It just seems so pat).

Yes, Theon was attracted to Asha when he saw her. He hadn't seen her since he was a little boy.

However, Victarion did get aroused at the prospect of marrying Asha but thought it was weird because he remembered her playing as a little girl. He was accustomed to not see her in a sexual light.

[E-Ro]

Alright, its unlikely to happen really, but it could, if they marry for duty and not for love.

[Gar Weg Wun Sygerrik]

Actually, I'd say that these are false impressions. We're actually told that Arya and Jon are unusually close and that she is the only one who doesn't refer to him as a 'half-brother'. It's not hard to find quotes in Bran's POV where he thinks of or speaks of Jon as his half-brother or bastard brother. I'm sure Sansa, being more concerned with social etiquette than the others, was probably more aware of what that meant, but it's Arya, not Sansa, who is noted as the exception to the rule. Coupled with the fact that both seem to have some positive recollections of the other, I think that it's very likely that they loved each other and got on (at worst) as well as Arya and Sansa did.

They all know Jon is the their half brother, and when they think they make this distinction but Sansa is the only one who says it out loud if I'm not mistaken. Although there is the last fairwell between Rob and Jon where it's made obvious as well.

[Jolene Brown]

Not that it really matters in Westeros, but interestingly, when the Bible outlaws forbidden sexual relationships between close relatives, it doesn't include uncle/niece... your Victarion/Asha comment just made me think of it, especially given the reams of Dany/Jon discussion.

[Budj]

Genetically / off-spring related speaking Jon is much better off with Sansa or Arya than Dany...

[Gar Weg Wun Sygerrik]

It's more about being raised as family members. Besides he likes the warrior woman type-Val and Ygritte and for political purposes Dany and Arianne are best for a son of Rhaegar.

Jon has only been around the 'warrior woman' type though. There were no women at the wall until Melisandre and the Wildlings were allowed through so his interaction with ladies has been limited. I think it's worth noting that Val is probably about as close to a lady as the wildlings have to offer, and he definitely seems attracted to her.

[ARYa_Nym]

Genetically / off-spring related speaking Jon is much better off with Sansa or Arya than Dany...

Targaryen speaking they like to marry their closest relatives.

Jon has only been around the 'warrior woman' type though. There were no women at the wall until Melisandre and the Wildlings were allowed through so his interaction with ladies has been limited. I think it's worth noting that Val is probably about as close to a lady as the wildlings have to offer, and he definitely seems attracted to her.

Yes, but when he notes how lovely she is it's after she stabbed someone in the neck. He says she's lovely and lethal. & at one point prides the fact that she was so much more than a princess and that she did not need a knight to rescue her because she was a warrior woman. His taste is similar to Rhaegar imo.

He also liked when she said that she's not a southron lady but a woman of the free folk.

[Budj]

But will Jon decide to embrace his Targ side when he finds out? I don't think so. Dany is all over being ok with marrying a nephew since it has been "ok" for her family since she has been able to think - not sure jon would be though!

[ARYa_Nym]

But will Jon decide to embrace his Targ side when he finds out? I don't think so. Dany is all over being ok with marrying a nephew since it has been "ok" for her family since she has been able to think - not sure jon would be though!

Well we don't know if nephew/aunt is taboo. I don't think the North was raised against incest as Jon didn't show any disgust over Cregan Karstark trying to marry Alys Karstark. She knew him as her uncle but he was technically her cousin.

If he doesn't embrace his Targaryen side then I think an incestuous relationship is out of the question whether it's with his aunt or cousins. He will probably just marry Val since he already thinks that Ghost and Val look like they belong together.

[NotSoSilentSister]

Genetically / off-spring related speaking Jon is much better off with Sansa or Arya than Dany...

You seem to have missed the part about "not being raised together".

[Julian Rayne]

I think that Sansa and Jon have more in common that either of them realize. This will not be a common opinion but I feel that they're the two most wolfish of the Winterfell children.

[E-Ro]

I think that Sansa and Jon have more in common that either of them realize. This will not be a common opinion but I feel that they're the two most wolfish of the Winterfell children.

Interesting, please explain.

[Lady Arianne Martell]

It's disturbing the ease with which people assume "close brother-sister relationship" = "incesty sexy times". It's somewhat surprising no one made insinuations about Jojen/Meera yet.

On topic, I think they were a bit distant with each other, but it didn't quite reached "dislike". Sansa was a proper little lady, I can't see her calling him "bastard" in his face, for example. Distance and hardship, later, makes them think back on those happier, simpler times and they find the love for each other they couldn't quite describe as summer children.

Agree on the bro sis thing and that last part was so beautifully written, that I felt a little teary.

[Pod The Impaler]

He compared her to Ygritte several times and 2 of those times he wondered what Ygritte's body was like in the same sentence.

I think what Jon sees in Ygritte that reminds him of Arya is how brash and wild she is. (Though most wildling women are probably like this, certainly not raised to be meek like the daughters of kneelers.)

Arya would make an excellent wildling spearwife... or Ironborn raider like Asha ... or Black Ear... or Sand Snake... or even a Dothraki. (Various kinds of dangerous women out there.)

[E-Ro]

I hope jon does not end up marrying dany and ruling all westeros,thats just the targs getting back on top. I would rather the kingdoms split up, better for everyone.

[Kittykatknits]

I think that Sansa and Jon have more in common that either of them realize. This will not be a common opinion but I feel that they're the two most wolfish of the Winterfell children.

Can you expand on this a bit? I'd love to hear more.