111 replies to this topic

[Lord Hound]

Hypothetically. Let's say his wife's head got cut off instead of his.

Same scenario.

Let's say he didn't aid Stannis. Or to make it clearer, Robb would have the same skills as Ned's.

Edited by Lord Hound, 19 July 2012 - 09:29 AM.

[Pellaeon]

Ned would lead his forces to KL after he bend the knee to Stannis and aid him attacking KL

[Lady Sansa Stark]

He would help Stannis become King and be the Lord of Winterfell and the North afterwards. Perhaps live happily ever after (well, without his wife), who knows?

[Robb_]

There probably wouldn't have been a King in the North and there would be no Red Wedding. So it wouldn't have been as good.

[E-Ro]

Stannis would sit the iron throne and cercei would burn in seven hells.

[oakenhelm]

People up and around the north seem to have a healthy fear of Ned. I would imagine that a conversation with Lord Frey would have gone very different if it were Ned speaking to him. I'm not sure Ned would have sent Theon, but I think it would be much harder for Theon to betray Ned than Robb. The fatherly fear and glare of Ned would be very powerful. I think part of Theon's actions were a bit of 'when the cat is away the mice will play.' Ned would not have married a Westerling and the Red Wedding would never happen.

[Lord Hound]

Let's say he didn't aid Stannis. Or to make it clearer, Robb would have the same skills as Ned's.

[Lady Sansa Stark]

Lord Hound, on 19 July 2012 - 09:29 AM, said:

Let's say he didn't aid Stannis. Or to make it clearer, Robb would have the same skills as Ned's.

He stated himself that Stannis was the rightful heir of Robert, so Ned would probably have helped him, but that doesn't matter here I guess.
I think not much had changed. The Red Wedding would still be possible if Robb was to marry one of Freys daughters. Perhaps for another reason, yes, but it's still a possibility. Tywin Lannister can be quite convincing with all his gold and promises.
And after that the Northmen would still support Stannis, for the sake of revenge.

[Pellaeon]

Lord Hound, on 19 July 2012 - 09:29 AM, said:

Let's say he didn't aid Stannis. Or to make it clearer, Robb would have the same skills as Ned's.

Do the honorable thing and bend the knee to Stannis. Neds primary skill is his honor

[Free Northman]

Very different:

Ned would have gathered his forces, cowed Lord Frey into submission, defeated Tywin at the Green Fork, Balon would not have dared invade the North, the Lannisters would have been expelled from the Riverlands and Stannis would have been on the Throne.

Ned was the pre-eminent battle commander in Westeros.

[Lors' Edrick]

I agree Ned would have almost assuredly marshalled more of the Northmen to his banner, as well as easily crossed the Twins (Ned would not have to negotiate anything with Walder Fry). The Riverlands would have been his from the start, as they were with his son, and I also believe the Vale would have come forth to his banner, as Lysa would probably be forced to avenge her sister's demise. In addition I believe the Stormlands would probably still be divided, but more so for Stannis' banner, now that Ned had the power of the Vale with him as well. In his past campaigning days, Ned looked to always know that to keep the enemy on his heels, you had to continuely push him back with no chance for breathing room. Robert knew this as well, thats why Ned had lead his vanguard so successfully to King's Landing and to relieve the seige at Storm's End.

[WhenLifeGiveYouCamel]

OP means battles, silly. Stannis smannish.

Ned doesn't seem that creative, so not as good at battles. Also Tywin wouldn't have underestimated him so no good opportunity for tricks. Probably would have lost to Tywin-Jamie after a long, conventional, slogging battle.

Edited by Lemons, 19 July 2012 - 09:42 AM.

[Barty]

Ned is most probably a very good battle commander - His experiences during robert's rebellion and later during Greyjoy's rebellion no doubt helped him become one. He is feared and respected a lot in the north and riverlands. Ned however seems to be a more cautious man than his son. He would have waited to collect the full forces of the north (anywhere between 35-50k)come down south and gone on to beat Tywin Lannister(He now outnumbers Tywin quite a bit especially as the frey's would have joined him without much whining.) He knows that the siege of riverrun will be a long one (Riverrun is a very strong fortress and Blackwood is no fool). He also knows that the siege is lead by Jaime who will abandon it the moment Ned kills/captures Tywin(2 birds 1 stone). Balon will be too afraid to attack the North - with or without Theon, Even if he does the north's defenses would be lead by a brilliant battle commander - Robb, who I have no doubt is capable enough to defeat Victarion and Asha. Then the riverlands join Ned boosting his armies, he bends the knee to Stannis and attacks King's Landing from the Land while Stannis attacks via sea(The tyrells not wanting to join the Lannisters if Tywin is defeated).
Overall a lot of bloodshed is avoided and Peace is brought back to the seven Kingdoms and Stannis will be a better King than Robert(not more liked but better for the realm's security and finances)

[Torron]

Ned was key in winning the rebellion that gave Robert the throne, he was obviously a more than good battle commander. He would have gathered more forces, joined with Stannis (there's no way he wouldn't have), the Lannisters would be pwned, and Stannis would be king and Ned would go back to being Lord of Winterfell.

Edited by Torron, 19 July 2012 - 10:26 AM.

[Pellaeon]

He also may wed Robb to Margery, after Renlys dead, the Tyrells won't join the losing side

[pitakon]

By all accounts who was prettier the Frey girl or Jeyne Westerling?

[Pellaeon]

pitakon, on 19 July 2012 - 10:42 AM, said:

By all accounts who was prettier the Frey girl or Jeyne Westerling?

I believe a marriage arrangement wouldn't be necessary to cross the Twins if Ned was there and Robb would never meet Jeyne

[Winterz]

Lady Sansa Stark, on 19 July 2012 - 09:33 AM, said:

He stated himself that Stannis was the rightful heir of Robert, so Ned would probably have helped him, but that doesn't matter here I guess.
I think not much had changed. The Red Wedding would still be possible if Robb was to marry one of Freys daughters. Perhaps for another reason, yes, but it's still a possibility. Tywin Lannister can be quite convincing with all his gold and promises.
And after that the Northmen would still support Stannis, for the sake of revenge.

Freys wouldn't care  much about marrying one of his daughters to Robb because she wouldn't be a Queen and the Freys wouldn't receive that much power or benefit from the marriage. Not to mention that under Ned's...North would be increadibly loyal and thrustworthy to him. Walder Frey wasn't sure of Robb's capabilities so he wanted some sort of liability first. With Ned, such things wouldn't be need to prove as Ned as proved himself really worthy of loyalty. Plus the Boltons wouldn't dare. And Ned would keep the Karstarks at bay. He'd have the entire North and Riverlands completely united.

Edited by Winterz, 19 July 2012 - 10:47 AM.

[Bran the Deciduous]

Well if Robb is Ned sans his desire to do homage to Stannis then we really only turn up one difference. Ned wouldn't have fouled up with Jeyne Westerling.

Because if he doesn't acknowledge Stannis as king who does he support, which of course paves the way for the re-emergence of the northern kingdom and the divisions between Stannis and the Starks.

I'm not sure how much aid the north could give to Stannis anyway though. Tywin was sat between them and if they tried to join up with Stannis this would give Tywin the chance to defeat them in detail.

[E-Ro]

Well, if he is not going to declare for stannis this changes things, first of all he would not have rushed south, there is no one to save so he can gather his full strength. Lets be conservative and say he has 40,000 northmen. He marches on the twins and lord frey makes him pass with a better deal then the robb one some wards and squires and perhaps an arya marriage, no robb marriage though(seriously that whole lord of winterfell marying a frey was a joke but anyway) then ned goes to meet Tywin at the gf, knowing riverunn is strong enough to last a long siege. He picks up numerous riverlords along the way and smashes Tywin before turning around to aid riverunn. Jaime in an idiotic rage throws himself at ned and is soundly beaten or doesnt get news of his fathers defeat and is smashed at riverunn. At this point ned has the riverlords at his side has broken the lannisters power and is currently in a strong position. If not bending the knee to stannis I cant see him going for renly(besides renly will soon die making stannis a kinslayer), so he is declared king of the north and riverlands, and balon decides to crown himself and invade the west, Tywin is dead or captured so he has nothing to fear, and with ned alive he wont invade the north. The vale either rebels against lysa and declares for ned or crowns Robert arryn king of the vale and allies with ned, either way ned now has the vale as well. when Renly dies the tyrells match robb with marg and mace becomes king of the reach. At this point either doran declares himself king of dorn or does nothing, and a king pops up in the stormlands or they bend to stannis and he gets himself killed trying to conquer westeros. If the lannisters are all killed by balon the west become westeroses disputed lands, being fought over by the kingdom of north and river the stormlords and the reach. If a lannister lives he or she rules the west, but much reduced in power. And you have about five kingdoms.

Edited by E-Ro, 19 July 2012 - 10:48 AM.