287 replies to this topic

[The Killer Snark]

I honestly think that, in a moment of crisis, Ramsay has murdered his own father to ensure that, no matter what happens, he can lay claim on the surface to dominion over the North. This would be poetic justice for Lord Bolton for always allowing his son to live despite killing off his trueborn heir.

Edited by Iain Robb, 24 January 2013 - 05:30 AM.

[Gogossos]

Hah. RW instigators killed by their own sons

[sentence]

I don´t buy the whole benjen-mance agreement & hooked man at WF and so..

Mance is older than Benjen. He has been around north of the wall for years before becoming king-beyond-the-wall (rallying allies, setting truces, fighting Thennites, etc.) ... He left the NW even before Benjen was born

Benjen... we do know so little about him. In fact, we do not know where he was during the rebellion (well, maybe at WF, the stark-in-WF and all that...). We know about Baratheons brothers (Storm End siege, Renly as a child..) but we do know little and less about Benjen, who at this moment was supposedly a grown man (at least, for westerosi standards)

[fassreiter]

sentence, on 24 January 2013 - 11:37 AM, said:

Mance is older than Benjen. He has been around north of the wall for years before becoming king-beyond-the-wall (rallying allies, setting truces, fighting Thennites, etc.) ... He left the NW even before Benjen was born

Where did you hear that? Mance was still with the NW when Jon was a child of about five years or more. This was after the rebellion.

[CKPS63]

David C. Simmons, on 20 July 2012 - 01:53 AM, said:

Exactly.....It doesn't fit any other character. Maybe Stannis tricked him, maybe Ramsay was defeated and survived and was just trying to gain leverage, maybe Roose is long dead, idk

Maybe Ramsay is MANCE's prisoner . . .  After all -- the only indication that Mance and the remainder of the spearwives were captured by Ramsay comes from the letter itself.  And Mance IS a remarkably resourceful fellow, fully capable of turning the tables on Ramsay.  Now . . . WHY would Mance write (or force Ramsay to writes) the letter to Jon?  That's a tougher question.

[Gogossos]

CKPS63, on 24 January 2013 - 06:29 PM, said:

Now . . . WHY would Mance write (or force Ramsay to writes) the letter to Jon?  That's a tougher question.

To provoke Jon. Mance writing the letter himself wouldn't move Jon one bit, since the letter admits that Arya escaped. A threat from Ramsay isn't going to be ignored, however (it should, it really should but at this point Jon is sliding into politics more and more). But Mance is too outnumbered to make Ramsay a prisoner, subterfuge is his only friend here.

[Lonmouth]

CKPS63, on 24 January 2013 - 06:29 PM, said:

Now . . . WHY would Mance write (or force Ramsay to writes) the letter to Jon?  That's a tougher question.

He wouldn't.

[GoldenVale]

Gogossos, on 24 January 2013 - 07:06 PM, said:

To provoke Jon. Mance writing the letter himself wouldn't move Jon one bit, since the letter admits that Arya escaped. A threat from Ramsay isn't going to be ignored, however (it should, it really should but at this point Jon is sliding into politics more and more).

To be fair the threat wasn't really something he could ignore that easily. If it was legitimate, and Jon and no reason really to suspect it wasn't, then he couldn't afford to ignore the threat of an armed force out for the NW.

Gogossos, on 24 January 2013 - 07:06 PM, said:

But Mance is too outnumbered to make Ramsay a prisoner, subterfuge is his only friend here.

Lonmouth, on 25 January 2013 - 10:33 AM, said:

He wouldn't.

If it is Mance (and I'm not even convinced it is) then he probably would use Ramsay. The North would never follow his lead so using Ramsay is ideal. And Mance would probably guess that Jon would rise to the bait if it was Ramsay dangling on the hook.