Jump to content

Theon Sample Chapter; The Letter sent to Jon (Spoilers)


Recommended Posts

Hoshidoshi ...I can only echo Paper Waver (although we don't agree on some details )

Stannis definitely knows Mance to be alive ,could easily know about Abel and would be able to figure it out by other clues , anyway ( e.g., the spearwives).

You have to read Jon and Stannis' early conversations about Mance, Mel's chapter (where they don't actually tell Jon Stannis doesn't know ), and the scene where Stannis "gives" Rattleshirt to Jon , where Mance tries to give Jon some very broad hints that it's really him ... right in front of Stannis. Stannis knows Mel can work glamours ( his sword).

Well, the letter seems like code to me with every word except "Mance Rayder" and "Winterfell" being a substitution.

If Stannis pulls off a letter that sound's like Mance sounding like Ramsay, he's a genius and deserves the Iron Throne. :)

Edit:

After rereading the chapters, I admit that it looks like Stannis knows. Not definite, but, yeah, 90% sure. And I admit, there is a strong Stannis motive. He wants the wildlings to rally to his cause and for Jon to defect (to rule Winterfell, to rally the North). The letter achieves this. And I see Stannis language.

But one thing I noticed is that Stannis says he needs to burn Mance for the "all the north to see" while Mance/Rattleshirt says he needed to be burned for the "the world" to see. Strangely, both of these appear in the letter.

So, in the letter we have Stannis language (smashed in battle, wilding princess, little prince, all the north to see), Mance language (the world, black crows, red witch, King-Beyond-the-Wall) and Theon language (my bride, my Reek, whores).

Either GRRM is screwing with us or GRRM just writes everyone in the same voice (entirely possible).

Or, maybe Stannis ordered Mance to write the letter, which Mance did with help of Theon? After all, we do have a long meeting between Stannis and Mance that is off screen near the beginning of ADwD and a long meeting between Mance and Theon that is off screen near the end of ADwD. But this is getting a little too conspiracy like.

And then there's the problem with ravens.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...

First post on these forums.



With regards to the authorship of the letter I find myself falling into the Ramsey camp despite some compelling points brought forth by other posters championing other principals such as Stannis, Mance, NW Deadenders etc.



The tone of the letter screams Ramsey it's boastful "He and all his host were smashed...", threatening "Keep them from me, and I will cut out your bastard's heart and eat it." and dark "The cage is cold, but I have made him a warm cloak from the skins of the six whores who came with him to Winterfell."



That final line concerning the cage has become a point of contention for some due to the striking similarity to fMance's execution but I see it's appeal to a sadist like Ramsey. He can publicly display Mance as a conquered foe while at the same time psychologically torturing a victim. It's one thing to threaten Mance to don a cloak of flesh at knife point, but it's much more sinister to have him wear it out of necessity, for warmth. Recall Mance's feelings to his black cloak sewn with scarlet thread, and now the image of Mance huddled in a cloak of human flesh suspended in a cage, broken.



"I want his wildling princess. I want his little prince, the wildling babe."



Some seem befuddled by the inclusion of these demands by Ramsey. Believing this gives credence to Mance being the author of the letter. To what end I'm not sure. If the letter was written by Mance the simple omission of Val and the infant wouldn't make this letter appear any less authentic. The child and Val are relatively safe at CB. Even the very remote possibility that the NW may comply seems out of character for Mance.



The actions of Mance and his washer women have robbed Ramsey of his bride. So it wouldn't be out of character for Ramsey to demand them to inflict further torture on Mance. It's also common practice to demand hostages within the seven kingdoms to ensure loyalty, with this many wildlings south of the Wall and no allegiances sworn to House Bolton this may be the quickest way to achieve it.



What I do find interesting is Ramsey got both descriptions of Val and Mance's son wrong according to how Wildlings view them. Val is not seen as a "Wildling Princess" by them, and his son is not a prince in their eyes either (TBH it's Gilly's babe). Only those unaccustomed to Wildling ways refer to them in this manner. If Ramsey discovered their identities through interrogation I find it puzzling that they would be described in this way.



"Your false king is dead" "I have his magic sword." "Your false king's friends are dead. Their heads upon the walls of Winterfell."



No mention of Stannis' corpse (real or fake). There is some foreshadowing in Theon's chapter from tWoW that Stannis may use the Karhold ravens to disseminate false information, and a subtle hint that Stannis may fake his own death as well. If we add the two together a raven arrives at Winterfell detailing the death of Stannis. That alone would not be enough confirmation without a body but the inclusion of Lightbringer should convince Ramsey of Stannis' demise. I foresee Lightbringer being couriered via a small contingent of Manderly knights back to Winterfell, and not at the head of a large "Trojan Horse" host. In the Trojan Horse scenario the window before discovery would be too short for Ramsey to write this letter.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 3 weeks later...

It is not really like Stannis to do something like this. He would also not know about Mance Rayder and the spearwives. But neither does Ramsay. How would Ramsay know about Mance's burning? The only way how he could know is if he caught an tortured Mance. But I dont think Mance would be easy to catch, especially because most of the spearwives died escaping with Theon and "Arya". I beleive that Mance wrote the letter, because that would definetely be his style. He might have been caught and wrote the letter so Jon would come to aid Stannis so they would have a better chance of winning so Mance could be freed. If he wasnt caught, the same motivations would apply. He couldnt stay hiding forever, and he knew if he got caught he would get flayed because of seeing the maimed Theon.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Mel basically admits she slept with Stannis to produce the shadows, and brienne recognizes stannis's features in the one that killed renly. I don't see any reason to doubt either one of those accounts.

the show makes evident a lot of things that are only implied in the books

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The line "I want my bride back, I want my Reek" can also point to Mance having written the letter. He had a long conversation with Theon (posing as Abel) and it's not hard to imagine Theon repeating "Lord Ramsay will want his Reek" and "Reek rhymes with seek" over and over again.



This would also explain the use of the word "crow", as well as "the King beyond the Wall", something neither Stannis nor Ramsay would ever say. Furthermore, Theon doesn't know Abel is actually Mance Rayder, so Stannis can't know either.


Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't know whether this has been discussed much before, but what Jon Snow sent the pink letter to himself? Now let's consider this. It would be a great move knowing that he needed to find a legitimate way to 'end his watch' and dying does work thereby allowing him to be resurrected, no longer a brother of the nights watch, fit to go back and take active part in the battle of winterfell as a stark. He knew that if he pushed hard eniugh , at least some of the brothers will consider this treason and kill him, relieving him of his responsibilities and free to go back and save arya. How he would know about reek though I don't know.

Also, no one has died from their own perspectives except in the prologue and epilogue chapters. Catelyn 'died' in her red wedding perspective chapter only to be resurrected and Brienne thought she had died but hadn't.

Also, I've believed since a long time that the wildlings are going to be the new townfolk of winterfell and the north, not just man the unmanned castles. Maybe this is some plot that Jon put together with Tormund in those two blind spot hours where they're locked in his chambers, or frankly even way before that, with Mance in the loop. But I really think that this pink letter was intended by Jon to get himself killed and free of his vows by mobilizing an attack though the NW are supposed to not take part in any of the realms quarrels.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hello, this is my first time posting here.



I don't think this has been mentioned yet, and I'm not sure it clarifies anything. In the beginning of this Theon chapter, the Braavosi banker notices that Stannis' inkwell has dried up. Stannis proceeds to use his own blood to sign the document. There can be two inferences made from this action. 1. Stannis may not have had the required ink to write the letter. The letter may not have come from him, depending on how it was written. 2. If he did write the letter, he probably used blood as ink, which would make it more "authentic" coming from Ramsay.



George gives tiny clues everywhere, sometimes they are red herrings, sometimes not, but everything in the text is a clue.


Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't get the idea of Mance writing the letter. Doesn't that theory require of him to take over Winterfell with less than six spearwives (half of the them having been killed when helping Reek)?

And it seems to me that there is nothing weird with Ramsay knowing what is going on on the wall. Flaying the spearwives and Mance should be more than enough to get all the information necessary. As for knowing of Stannis' magic sword... doesn't everybody in Westeros know about it by now? I mean, it seemes to me that the magic sword was a central part of his promotion campaign.

I agree with this. I think everyone who's coming with alternatives to Ramsey is just over-complicating and over-thinking the story. Yes, the books are full of great twists, so no one can be sure this isn't one of them, and, yes, you'll all be very clever people if the letter turns out to have been written by Mance or Stannis or whoever, but if I had to bet I'd bet it was Ramsey. I think all this over-analyzing of the language is a bit silly, and none of it sounds un-Ramsey-like to me anyway.

The man point is what Crimson King says: Ramsay could easily have all the info he needs from Mance and spearwives. His belief about Stannis having been defeated and killed makes perfect sense based on what we see coming for the battle on the ice

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Put aside what the letter sounds like for a moment, and focus on what we know about Ramsay's methods. When has Ramsay ever given warning that he was about to attack ? The answer is never.



The only letter of warning was the one received by Asha..



The first words were, “I write this letter in the blood of ironmen,” the last, “I send you each a piece of prince. Linger in my lands, and share his fate.”


This is very restrained, compared to the PL , and designed to give Asha the chance to withdraw. Since it says I send you each a piece of prince , we can assume Dagmer Cleftjaw received one just the same .. but since it's signed ..Ramsay Bolton, Lord of Winterfell,... we know it must have been sent after Roose returned north , because Ramsay wasn't named Lord of Winterfell until then. Sending this letter is very like Roose's tactics - he tries not to risk any of his own men , if he can help it - so we can assume it was written on Roose's instructions.


If the Pink Letter had been written on Roose's instructions ,I think we can assume it would have taken a different tone , similar to Asha's letter.


In every case of an attack by Ramsay , he's used surprise and subterfuge. He's never broadcast his intent beforehand. If , in fact, he really wants all those hostages , it would be wiser to just turn up at CB and demand them , without threatening the LC personally and without giving him a chance to send the hostages away , or try to mount a defense .


If his object is just to recapture Jeyne and Theon, he has to try to get them before they reach Jon and make it possible for Jon to expose the Bolton lies ...again, why give Jon a heads up ? Once Jon knows Arya is an imposter and Theon didn't kill Bran and Rickon , Ramsay can hardly expect Jon to keep quiet.... it would still be better to take Jon by surprise.


And if his object is to inflame Jon and draw him away from CB where he can be easily killed without any cost , why bother to mention all the extra hostages ? It seems to me that the personal threats would do it , if anything... and yet again, why give Jon a chance to try to escape ?


Whatever it sounds like , I just don't think sending the letter is compatible with Ramsay's MO.


ETA: I can't accept the idea of blackmail.. it's not the Bolton way to leave witnesses and as they seem to be intent on wiping out the Stark bloodline ,they'll have Jon marked down for the future , anyway.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

In my opinion Stannis may very well lose that battle (and his life) which would make Ramsay's letter actually saying the truth.

Excellent post. But clipping it to get to the point. It's odds-on Ramsay wrote it imo. There's a lot of Stannis loyalists like myself who don't like the letter, but despite the Stannis battle role-call history, Ramsay's swift and decisive taking of WF is overlooked, he barely lost a man against Ser Rodrik.

Melisandre has given up on Stannis, all she saw in the flames was Jon Snow.. so his going to be her zombie carnation. Hopefully not but the pessimist sees that lazy line coming.

Who knows what's going on with Roose, it is the WoW.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think where the Mance theory crumbles is the assumptions it makes about Mance's knowledge of Jon and Wildling culture. Mance is intelligent and perceptive enough to know that Jon wouldn't just hand over Val and the baby because of the letter. If you think his goal is just to get his Wildlings south: Mance would also know that the Wildlings wouldn't be his anymore, should Jon get them to follow him south.



The Stannis theory is even more at odds with what we know about the characters' personalities. Stannis is a straightforward guy. He may not be averse to lying, but it's unlikely he would try to send a message to Jon in such a roundabout way. What would the letter accomplish, anyway? Either Jon leaves the Wall, or he hands over Arya, Theon, etc, to the Boltens. I don't see why Stannis would want either.





Put aside what the letter sounds like for a moment, and focus on what we know about Ramsay's methods. When has Ramsay ever given warning that he was about to attack ? The answer is never.



The only letter of warning was the one received by Asha..





Well, then it's not never, is it? :P




If the Pink Letter had been written on Roose's instructions ,I think we can assume it would have taken a different tone , similar to Asha's letter.



In all the other situations, he held the power and was in a good position to make demands and threats. Here, he's lost control over everything; his loss of command over Reek is symbolic of that. He's desperate, angry and irrational. I think we can expect the tone of the PL to be different to Ramsey's other letters.


Link to comment
Share on other sites

The theory that Stannis wrote the letter just doesn't pass the smell test. Is it possible? Sure, but so are an infinite number of other possibilities.



The fact that he used magic to kill his brother and even possibly cheated on his wife doesn't imply that his character is a blank slate who has free license to act in any way possible.



From what I recall, part of the reason he lost the Battle of Blackwater was that he didn't bring Melisandre with him, to counter any perception that his winning the Iron Throne would only be because of her. (You could then counter that he learned his lesson from that, I suppose).



Unlike Renly, Jon is someone Stannis respects. I just can't see Stannis pulling something like this on Jon and facing him afterwards as a man.



Tricking your enemy is one thing. Using elaborate subterfuge (the letter) to trick an ally you respect into doing what you want is a whole different ballgame.



Put it this way, could you imagine Stannis even sending a letter to Jon openly begging for help, even under the most dire of circumstances? This would be essentially the same thing, but with another layer of deceit and dishonor added on top.



Or why didn't he just send a simple direct warning letter that might incorporate half truths or even outright lies: "Jon, I have lost the battle. Ramsay is coming for you". Something of that sort.


Link to comment
Share on other sites

First post on these forums.

Really well thought out.

What do you think is the purpose of the letter - or the objective of the author?

To induce Jon Snow to lead a force south from Castle Black? Who benefits?

Assuming that Ramsay has been misled in some important respects by Stannis and/or Mance (who seems far more cunning than Stannis), and that their purpose is to get the BW and the Wildings militarily engaged at Winterfell, has Stannis somehow deceived Ramsay into obtaining vital reinforcements for his proposed siege of Winterfell? Or has Mance somehow engineered a situation where the Wall might become undermanned?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The theory that Stannis wrote the letter just doesn't pass the smell test. Is it possible? Sure, but so are an infinite number of other possibilities.

The fact that he used magic to kill his brother and even possibly cheated on his wife doesn't imply that his character is a blank slate who has free license to act in any way possible.

From what I recall, part of the reason he lost the Battle of Blackwater was that he didn't bring Melisandre with him, to counter any perception that his winning the Iron Throne would only be because of her. (You could then counter that he learned his lesson from that, I suppose).

Unlike Renly, Jon is someone Stannis respects. I just can't see Stannis pulling something like this on Jon and facing him afterwards as a man.

Tricking your enemy is one thing. Using elaborate subterfuge (the letter) to trick an ally you respect into doing what you want is a whole different ballgame.

Put it this way, could you imagine Stannis even sending a letter to Jon openly begging for help, even under the most dire of circumstances? This would be essentially the same thing, but with another layer of deceit and dishonor added on top.

Or why didn't he just send a simple direct warning letter that might incorporate half truths or even outright lies: "Jon, I have lost the battle. Ramsay is coming for you". Something of that sort.

..Based on the Theon chapter - the only ravens Stannis has are probably Winterfell ravens , judging by Stannis' conversation with the Maester.

"A maester's raven flies to one place, and one place only. Is that correct?"

The maester mopped sweat from his brow with his sleeve. "N-not entirely, Your Grace. Most, yes. Some few can be taught to fly between two castles. Such birds are greatly prized. And once in a very great while, we find a raven who can learn the names of three or four or five castles, and fly to each upon command. Birds as clever as that come along only once in a hundred years."...In other words , they are rare. ...and back in AGoT Aemon says of Mormont's raven , “He is a rare bird,”

Maester Tybald's ravens are behaving exactly like Mormont's raven ( if not more so ) and it's long been assumed that Mormont's raven is "warged" by Bloodraven.

Bloodraven has shown Bran how to skinchange into the ravens at the cave.. they can fly with them anywhere, and slip from one bird to another ,and apparently direct them where to fly, etc. ( see Mormont's raven hiding in the kettle at Jon's election ).... In ADWD, just before Theon arrives at Stannis' camp Asha notices a raven pecking at the remains of one of the sacrifices ( watching proceedings?)... Soon afterward ,we see the 2 ravens acting very suggestively at the same time.

It also seems that Theon will be taken to the Tree ! ...Bran has already had some success communicating with Theon. It's not far-fetched to think that something will happen at the tree to give Stannis the idea that the birds might be able to fly to Castle Black.

I think Stannis believes Theon's assessment of Roose's numbers , and who could predict Ramsay's behaviour better than Theon ? Stannis knows that the Boltons need "Arya" to justify taking over WF. So he believes Ramsay will be coming after her , and he wants to warn Jon.

At the same time , he's apparently thinking of faking his own death as a way to get inside WF. So just in case he's wrong about the ravens, and they both fly to WF, he writes the letter to Jon as if it's from Ramsay, so as not to give his plan away to Roose.

Unfortunately, this will give Jon the initial idea that he's dead , but Stannis would be sure Mel would be able to see him in her fires , and so writes...

Your false king is dead, bastard. He and all his host were smashed in seven days of battle. I have his magic sword. Tell his red whore.

His main purpose is to warn Jon about Ramsay. He needs Jon at the wall to protect his family as well as to be getting the forts manned. I think he's been able to put it together that Abel is Mance and tries to take the blame himself for Mance's survival.

But I think there's another unforeseen wrinkle in Stannis' plan ,...that the conspirators at the wall intercept the letter and alter it, so that Jon is also accused of letting Mance live , and add demands for extra hostages, and even more Thorne-like insults.

Neither Mance nor Stannis want Jon to "come to Winterfell" , neither one knows about Tormund's people , both want Jon to be protecting those that are close to them and neither one wants the wall to fail.

But the conspirators would like to be rid of all those to whom Jon has given guest right . They'd love the wildlings to rush off after Mance ( probably to their deaths )..and they want some excuse to get rid of Jon.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

..

Neither Mance nor Stannis want Jon to "come to Winterfell" , neither one knows about Tormund's people , both want Jon to be protecting those that are close to them and neither one wants the wall to fail.

But the conspirators would like to be rid of all those to whom Jon has given guest right . They'd love the wildlings to rush off after Mance ( probably to their deaths )..and they want some excuse to get rid of Jon.

The Pink Letter makes heavy allusions to the Wildling Submission Ceremony and announces that Mance is alive, which would make the wildlings unruly.

It demands the Queen and Shireen, which would cause the Queen's men to panic.

It claims Stannis is dead and his magic sword useles, which would cause Mel to panic.

It goads Jon into deserting the Night's Watch, which would cause the Night's Watch to fall apart.

It's a chaos bomb.

It would be the last thing Stannis would want and it plays right into Mance's hand.

And, yes, Mance likely thinks Tormund is at the Wall. Mance likely talked to Val and Val went to get Tormund.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm not sure if I'm convinced but excellent theory. Stannis has been trying from the very beginning to get Jon to claim the North, become Lord of Winterfell & rally North to his side. Maybe Theon told Stannis - hey look Arya is Jon's favorite & if anything will bring him down here its her. Quite a possibility IMO

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The Pink Letter makes heavy allusions to the Wildling Submission Ceremony and announces that Mance is alive, which would make the wildlings unruly.

It demands the Queen and Shireen, which would cause the Queen's men to panic.

It claims Stannis is dead and his magic sword useles, which would cause Mel to panic.

It goads Jon into deserting the Night's Watch, which would cause the Night's Watch to fall apart.

It's a chaos bomb.

It would be the last thing Stannis would want and it plays right into Mance's hand.

And, yes, Mance likely thinks Tormund is at the Wall. Mance likely talked to Val and Val went to get Tormund.

I don't say you haven't made a plausible case for Mance , as have others ...it just doesn't fully convince me at this stage. Still, he'd be my second choice behind Stannis for writing the original letter , just not for all the same reasons.

Firstly, we don't know for sure what Mance's agenda is at WF, we can only guess.( laying out my own guesses here would take us off on a long tangent ) ... But - he told Jon , flat out , that he wanted to get his people behind the Wall's protection, so he doesn't want the Wall to fail , and he knows the NW doesn't have the men to properly man it on their own. Just as Stannis needs Jon at the Wall for his reasons , Mance would want Jon at the Wall for his own.

I don't assume Mance likely would have talked to Val - in fact , I think it's pretty unlikely. Stannis kept them separated from the get-go . Val was kept at the top of the King's Tower ,where Stannis and Mel were situated. We know it was well guarded, and would have been .. night and day. As Rattleshirt , Mance still wouldn't have had the freedom to come and go at will in the KT, and though I'm sure he could scale it , there was a high risk of being seen by Stannis' guards or NW brothers ... and unless she can see through glamours , I highly doubt that Val would stand still for Rattleshirt climbing in her window. She would have no better opinion of him than Mance , or Jon. To paraphrase Mance , " Only a fool would trust Rattleshirt. "

I do think Jon would have had further conversation with Mance before he sent him off, though.. and I think it's very possible Mance could have suggested to Jon that Val could find Tormund , or said something to give Jon the idea. But - Mance wouldn't know if Jon had followed any such suggestion , or if Val had succeeded , or if Tormund had come to terms with Jon.... As far as Mance can know , there was only the same 300 fighting men of the free folk that Stannis had planned to use ( plus some additional spearwives ) at the Wall. Not enough to have a hope of taking WF.

**Aside - I think Val is a seer .. a sort of priestess to the old gods , which is why she can travel about north of the Wall without fear of being stolen or assaulted by wildlings, see ...

... but neither Mance nor Val would reveal that , because it would put Val in danger from Mel. Though both Val and Tormund try to drop hints to Jon , and though he's learned a lot about the wildlings , Jon still doesn't know enough to pick up on their hints ... just as he doesn't know enough about Mel's ability to cast glamours to pick up on Mance's very broad hints at his real identity while in the guise of Rattleshirt. **

You Say..

1) It demands the Queen and Shireen, which would cause the Queen's men to panic.

2) It claims Stannis is dead and his magic sword useles, which would cause Mel to panic.

3) It goads Jon into deserting the Night's Watch, which would cause the Night's Watch to fall apart.

4) It's a chaos bomb.

I agree with these points in general , but in the case of ..

1) - Not if they thought Jon would honour guest right or is Stannis' ally.

2) - No one could know that Mel would not be able to see Stannis in the flames . She's not often willing to admit weakness , except in interpretation. I don't think Mance , who has first hand experience of her powers , would think she would panic...unless Stannis truly is dead. ( which I doubt )

3) - Some others might want his , but I dont think Mance would , as stated above.

4) - True , but I don't think Mance would think that would help him at the moment. It could take weeks for however many of the free folk there are to reach WF ...and would it be enough ?

I don't think any of this plays into Mance's hand. But it would suit Bowen (and Thorne) and the conspirators very well..for political reasons ( Bowen ) and for personal reasons (Thorne). I don't think Bowen is smart enough to see that it could cause the NW to fall apart , he's mainly worried about being on the wrong side of the IT ... and I don't think Thorne cares , as long as Jon is eliminated.

Mance uses "bastard" a lot when speaking to Jon , and while it is a gibe , it doesn't carry the same vehemence as when uttered by say, Thorne or Slynt. It's a reference to the fact that Jon claimed his treatment as a bastard was his reason for wanting to join Mance . Mance could accept it , since he was a bastard himself, and saw where Jon was seated at the feast at WF.... Then Jon went back to the NW ... So Mance continually rubs it in ( bastard , eh? Yeah, sure..). I'd say the Pink Letter uses "bastard"in a much more vicious way than Mance ever has.

ETA: I meant to address this , as well .. The Pink Letter makes heavy allusions to the Wildling Submission Ceremony and announces that Mance is alive, which would make the wildlings unruly. ... No one would assume that Jon would read the letter aloud, Jon is not obligated to do so ... but Stannis would think that if Mance had been captured , Jon should know that the story would come out and I think probably only wrote "your false king lied" ..which would exonerate Jon in the eyes of the watch.. but the conspirators would have added "and so did you " ..to implicate Jon , whether or not they think it's true...Stannis was certainly at the ceremony , but he can't know if Jon actually sent Mance , or if Mel did.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I highly doubt that Val would stand still for Rattleshirt climbing in her window. She would have no better opinion of him than Mance , or Jon. To paraphrase Mance , " Only a fool would trust Rattleshirt. "

ETA: I meant to address this , as well .. The Pink Letter makes heavy allusions to the Wildling Submission Ceremony and announces that Mance is alive, which would make the wildlings unruly. ... No one would assume that Jon would read the letter aloud, Jon is not obligated to do so ... but Stannis would think that if Mance had been captured , Jon should know that the story would come out and I think probably only wrote "your false king lied" ..which would exonerate Jon in the eyes of the watch.. but the conspirators would have added "and so did you " ..to implicate Jon , whether or not they think it's true...Stannis was certainly at the ceremony , but he can't know if Jon actually sent Mance , or if Mel did.

Yeah, Val would scream if Rattleshirt came climbing through, but Val already knows its Mance. Val knows Mance is alive. She offered to marry a kneeler for Mance's life. And there is every indication is that Stannis accepted: 1) Stannis starts talking about Val marrying the Lord of Winterfell as an eventuality 2) Mance ends up alive 3) Val participates in the Wildling Submission Ceremony (with no emtional reaction).

Jon actually screws himself over in four ways: 1) He argues that Mance should be spared. 2) He swaps the babies and lets Val know. 3) He lets Val contact Tormund. 4) He let's Mance go south. He basically handed Mance the knife to stab him.

On Jon reading the Pink Letter aloud. Could Jon keep it a secret? The Pink Letter threatens Jon and demands for Jon to hand over women and children to a man known for torturing people. It's a demand no one would comply with. And even if Jon were completely heartless, he can't comply. He doesn't have "Arya" or Theon. But most importantly, Mance observed how upset Jon got when he read about "Arya's" wedding. Mance knows Jon would have to do something.

It leaves Jon with the following options:

Option 1) No action. Pretend the Pink Letter never came. The problem is Ramsay is angry and searching for "Arya". If he finds her first, she will be tortured. Ramsay will eventually come to the Wall anyway. When he does come, he will be well armed. Essentially, action now is better than waiting for two reasons: save Arya, better odds against Ramsay.

Option 2) Sneak away. Jon has no army. He would likely be caught and tortured. If not, he would be called a deserter.

Option 3) Tell his brothers, but no one else. The problem is they can't participate and there are too few of them.

Option 4) Tell the Wildlings, but no one else. The problem is the Night's Watch would freak out about a Wildling army heading south.

Option 5) Tell the Queen's Men, but no one else. The problem is they have no loyalty to Jon. Their job is to protect the Queens. They would likely retreat to Eastwatch.

Option 5) Tell everyone. Big army. Get to strike Ramsay when he is weakest. Still have problem of desertion.

Essentially, option 5 is really the only choice. The Pink Letter must be read aloud because Jon needs an army and it happens to be the perfect rallying item.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...