148 replies to this topic

[Lady Arianne Martell]

I'm just listing a few, but you guys go ahead and join in

1. He kills the Maester Kerwin and does nothing to help him when his crew mistreats him
2. He drowns the perfumed boy whores just for existing
3. He sacrifices the 7 slave women
4. He doesn't have an ounce of kindness in his soul
5. He seems to think having a "salt wife" is morally correct


Go on, I'm sure there's more

[Mr Motte]

He killed his wife....

[Kittykatknits]

Mr Motte, on 21 July 2012 - 05:04 PM, said:

He killed his wife....

...by beating her to death with his own hands.

He was willing to give that Maester to his men too.

[My big fat red wedding]

He sends the Drowned God scorched leftovers instead of the whole body.

[jarl the climber]

Lady Arianne Martell, on 21 July 2012 - 05:00 PM, said:

I'm just listing a few, but you guys go ahead and join in

1. He kills the Maester Kerwin and does nothing to help him when his crew mistreats him
2. He drowns the perfumed boy whores just for existing
3. He sacrifices the 7 slave women
4. He doesn't have an ounce of kindness in his soul
5. He seems to think having a "salt wife" is morally correct


Go on, I'm sure there's more

1. His society mistrusts the Maesters, he blames one for killing his brother Urri. He did give him a knife to protect himself after he is raped. He also thinks the guy was poisoning him.
2. I can't really defend him on this one
3. He comes from a society where human sacrifice is expected and acceptable.
4. He is definitely not a softy but he is not a sadist like his brother Euron. He expresses dismay at the thought of Serrys wife possibly being dishonored.
5. Once again this practice is accepted in his society.
Vic is not an original thinker, he is a traditionalist.

[Two Towers]

My big fat red wedding, on 21 July 2012 - 05:08 PM, said:

He sends the Drowned God scorched leftovers instead of the whole body.

This is the only true accusation. The others are because he doesn't have the soft heart of women

[Allyria Iliogeniti]

His thoughts about women is very interesting

His *frankly, my dear, I don't give a damn* behavior towards the others.

He killed his wife because she cheated on him with Euron (which is something natural every woman and man would prefer Euron before him  )

Lady Arianne Martell, on 21 July 2012 - 05:00 PM, said:

5. He seems to think having a "salt wife" is morally correct

Well in his culture it may be (only if a woman can take salt husbands)

Edited by Jon's Queen Consort, 21 July 2012 - 05:14 PM.

[LuisDantas]

Never mind the salt wives, particularly since (from what we have seen in the first Theon chapter) it seems to be a fairly open, honest proposal.  Sure, they have little respect or status, but they are free to refuse the role far as I can tell, and it isn't a particularly dangerous or umpleasant role to fulfill.

Don't take me wrong, salt wives are a deeply chauvinistic concept.  But I wouldn't call having them morally reprehemsible per se.  And in a culture that thinks little of cutting off the tongues of their own people, they barely register in the moral scale.

@J'QC: I assume Asha is free to take salt husbands, yes.  But from what we have seen Asha is an exception; her culture doesn't take women very seriously, I fear.

Coming back to Victarion - he is hardly as bad as Euron or even Damphair, but he is still rather amoral.  Besides the OP's points, there is the way he treats his bedwarmer - who incidentally lost her tongue as well.  It was Euron's decision, not Victarion's, but he does not seem to take much of a stance on the matter.

Edited by LuisDantas, 21 July 2012 - 05:21 PM.

[jarl the climber]

My big fat red wedding, on 21 July 2012 - 05:08 PM, said:

He sends the Drowned God scorched leftovers instead of the whole body.

Well in his "brilliant mind", he is trying to win the support of 2 gods for his side which will make him unbeatable in his own mind. Moquorro kind of tries to hint that he should maybe tone it down with little affect, if anything he starts sacrificing more people. Its not like he is doing this because he enjoys it, its about winning the favor of the Gods and in his mind they want human sacrifices, its up to them to sort out who gets which sacrifice.

[jarl the climber]

LuisDantas, on 21 July 2012 - 05:20 PM, said:

Never mind the salt wives, particularly since (from what we have seen in the first Theon chapter) it seems to be a fairly open, honest proposal.  Sure, they have little respect or status, but they are free to refuse the role far as I can tell, and it isn't a particularly dangerous or umpleasant role to fulfill.

Don't take me wrong, salt wives are a deeply chauvinistic concept.  But I wouldn't call having them morally reprehemsible per se.  And in a culture that thinks little of cutting off the tongues of their own people, they barely register in the moral scale.

@J'QC: I assume Asha is free to take salt husbands, yes.  But from what we have seen Asha is an exception; her culture doesn't take women very seriously, I fear.

I disagree. I have never heard the term in the books. The best Asha can do is take a lover like Quarl or Tris.

[LuisDantas]

Come to think of it, you are probably right; and it was Euron, not herself, who chose her "husband".  Ironborn are nothing if not chauvinistic.

That said, I don't think they much mind her taking lovers either, and that is probably the closest to a salt husband she will be allowed to have.  Never mind that Asha is a very unusual and daring Ironborn woman, her society is simply unprepared to deal with an independent woman who dares to make choices about her men.

[Garlan Marius]

Not that it's saying much, but he's the "least bad" of his brothers.

[Harty]

Oh please, where were all these women's rights in Medieval Europe? It's a dark fantasy, which is why I enjoy it so much, and it's for this gritty realism that makes GRRM's work so brilliant.
I for one love Victarion Greyjoy and his chapters.

[NotYetRegistered]

I like Victarion's chapters, but he's a contender for the Dumb Brute award and he's a douchebag.

[Damar]

In AdWD I really got the impression Victarion was dumb, or at least slower than most. Especially when he mentions how he hated his brothers laughing and suspecting it was about him.

[Kittykatknits]

Damar, on 21 July 2012 - 06:16 PM, said:

In AdWD I really got the impression Victarion was dumb, or at least slower than most. Especially when he mentions how he hated his brothers laughing and suspecting it was about him.

Well, Martin did call him dumb as a post so I think it's safe to say your impression was a correct one...

[the Scorpion Knight]

Kittykatknits, on 21 July 2012 - 05:08 PM, said:

...by beating her to death with his own hands.

the other option was loosing his face

[Kittykatknits]

the Scorpion Knight, on 21 July 2012 - 06:53 PM, said:

the other option was loosing his face

Not much of a defense to me...

[Swordsaint]

I hate to use a page from Tywin's play book, but Vic downing all of those people isn't only a tradition, it's also strategical. He's out for war, not to feed useless slaves. My memory is a bit hazy, but I also think he's one of the few Iron Born to actually win a battle over an army. Vic is without a doubt an asshole, but he's no Ramsay.

Edited by Swordsaint, 21 July 2012 - 07:24 PM.

[MyLifeIsNotSoPrecious]

Damar, on 21 July 2012 - 06:16 PM, said:

In AdWD I really got the impression Victarion was dumb, or at least slower than most. Especially when he mentions how he hated his brothers laughing and suspecting it was about him.

Or how about when Euron asked him to bring Dany to Westeros so Euron can marry her and his genius idea is to marry Dany himself.  Yea, no way Euron will anticipate that brilliant move.