131 replies to this topic

[The BlackBear]

Grip, on 24 July 2012 - 02:10 AM, said:

Indeed. Bowen Marsch is a man. Jon Snow is a boy, still. But I can contend that how Jon handled the wildlings might have been the best course of action at that time, though I still think there will be consequences. The expedition to Hardhome hovewer was a a great mistake, and the NW has paid dearly for it. If any wildling could have the potential to be a minor house in Westersos its the Thenns, atleast they are disciplined. On no account should they replace the Karstarks hovewer.

I think the major point is that all the wildlings at Hardhome would have become wights. This would massively increase any threat. They can only be effectively stopped by fire, which is pretty damn difficult (fire arrows take a long time to reload, and fighting with a burning torch sounds like a recipe for disaster.) The NW couldn't cope with the already existing wights, add onto that the vast number of wildlings north of the wall. That would make an enormous host. If he hadn't gone North he would have had to deal with a bigger problem later.
Not to forget the leaving thousands of women and children to die would weigh on your conscience a bit.

[Know Face Man]

I really dont understand how there could be a House Thenn?? The Thenn are a group of people, not a Family.

Thenn is also a area from which these people come from, again not a Family.

There is no house Winterfell. However there is House Tarth of Tarth, But thats a Family not a group of people

[The BlackBear]

Know Face Man, on 24 July 2012 - 03:28 AM, said:

I really dont understand how there could be a House Thenn?? The Thenn are a group of people, not a Family.

I think it's being used very loosely, like the Northern Mountain Clans. They're all Flint's but the leaders are The Flint, and his family are related Flint's. If he married into Nobility, he's within his rights to create house Thenn.

[Grip]

The BlackBear, on 24 July 2012 - 03:23 AM, said:

I think the major point is that all the wildlings at Hardhome would have become wights. This would massively increase any threat. They can only be effectively stopped by fire, which is pretty damn difficult (fire arrows take a long time to reload, and fighting with a burning torch sounds like a recipe for disaster.) The NW couldn't cope with the already existing wights, add onto that the vast number of wildlings north of the wall. That would make an enormous host. If he hadn't gone North he would have had to deal with a bigger problem later.
Not to forget the leaving thousands of women and children to die would weigh on your conscience a bit.

But risking most of the ships at the NW's disposal, at the onset of winter, was a very risky move and proved catastrophic. Even without considering the others and the starving desperate wildlings etc the storms at that time of year is a great danger all on its own. Those ships might well have been used at other places and for other causes. It would be better then to lead an expedition by land (as planed) and have the wildlings lead it.

Edited by Grip, 24 July 2012 - 03:39 AM.

[The BlackBear]

Grip, on 24 July 2012 - 03:38 AM, said:

But risking most of the ships at the NW's disposal, at the onset of winter, was a very risky move and proved catastrophic. Even without considering the others etc the storms at that time of year is a great danger all on its own. Those ships might well have been used at other places and for other causes. It would be better then to lead an expedition by land (as planed) and have the wildlings lead it.

Please list these uses for us.
The NW have been unpopular for centuries. No one really wants to help them out, especially not with them wrapped up in their wars. So they can't go to get supplies recruits.
The last time the NW went north of the wall on foot, they were destroyed by the Others. Not to mention that we know that the Others are very close to Hardhome so the NW would have to get through them anyway. Better to risk some sea ability than to lose your preciously few rangers.

[Grip]

The BlackBear, on 24 July 2012 - 03:41 AM, said:

Please list these uses for us.
The NW have been unpopular for centuries. No one really wants to help them out, especially not with them wrapped up in their wars. So they can't go to get supplies recruits.
The last time the NW went north of the wall on foot, they were destroyed by the Others. Not to mention that we know that the Others are very close to Hardhome so the NW would have to get through them anyway. Better to risk some sea ability than to lose your preciously few rangers.

They could be used for trade, be sold for money to Stannis, or just kept back as a reserve in case of need. They would most likely be needed come spring. I meant for the wildlings to make the expedition (granted I didnt phrase that correctly), and have say Tormund lead it. The NW would stay at home, out of harms way. Thus the wildlings are put to use and there are a few less mouths to feed.

Edited by Grip, 24 July 2012 - 03:55 AM.

[The BlackBear]

Stannis has no money, he's just taken out a loan from the IB and put it all into mercenaries.
There's no point him saving them for after the Long Night if they don't win, which he would make more likely by leaving all the Wildlings at Hardhome.
And if they send out Wildlings they'll still need to feed them, and if they then get attacked by others themselves, the problem isn't solved.

[Darth Rivers]

Know Face Man, on 24 July 2012 - 03:28 AM, said:

I really dont understand how there could be a House Thenn?? The Thenn are a group of people, not a Family.

Thenn is also a area from which these people come from, again not a Family.

There is no house Winterfell. However there is House Tarth of Tarth, But thats a Family not a group of people

The Magnars of Thenn are essentially hereditary monarchs. So house Thenn = the current Magnar and maybe his relatives. It has just been founded as a noble house in Westeros, but for all practical intents and purposes the magnar bloodline were already nobility. So it's just a matter of the current magnar becoming lord and spawning some offspring - who will be the first true generation of house Thenn.

[Dragonguard]

The Frosted King, on 23 July 2012 - 08:25 AM, said:

I don't understand how anyone can think house Bolton will or should survive the series in any manner. Their actions from a clash of kings on, was part of their final bid for supremacy in the north.
The burning of winter fell, the murders at the RW, the forced marriage to "Arya" Stark. There is no turning back at this point. If they fail, their line is done. The other Northmen detest them too much, and there is too much bad history between them and the Starks for another kneel and arise forgiven opportunity. It would be laughable for them to get off and continue in their Bolton tradition. No, the entire culture of the Bolton line must be scorched from the north.

When you play the Game of Thrones you Win or you Die - the Starks Win the Boltons Die
Give Tormund the Dreadfort (and the Thenns.... a rebuilt Moat Cailin? or if Harrion dies (I hope not) then Karhold)

[Ramsay Gimp]

A couple things:

1. Harrion Karstark should get Karhold. He is the heir, and he fought for Robb honorably
2. House Bolton is awesome. Like Gurkhal, I hope they keep the Dreadfort
3. Releasing Jaime was much more damaging to Robb (though better morally) than killing the two boys. Robb should have made a show of "imprisoning" or exiling his mother, while secretly sending her messages saying that he forgave her/understood/loved her, etc.

Edited by Ramsay Gimp, 15 October 2012 - 04:47 PM.

[evita mgfs]

Free Northman, on 23 July 2012 - 03:05 AM, said:

I just find the whole Karstark situation to be unjust.

I don't care that Rickard disobeyed Robb's orders. It was as a direct result of Catelyn's irrational actions.

Rickard sacrificed both his sons to Robb's cause. You don't throw a sacrifice like that back into the face of your most loyal follower.

I don't care that what Robb did was "honourable". The fact is, it was not RIGHT.

Wow!  Good for you.    I haven't heard that said, and I was afraid to speak ill of a Stark on some threads; Robb doesn't honor his mother's pact with Walder Frey, either.  A proud, vain man.
Rob was king.  Khal Drogo says to  Khaleesi she tells/orders a servant; she does not ask pretty please (paraphrase from GoT).  if Robb wore his trappings of power, as Mel calls them, he would have told Walder Grey Wind was coming to dinner, or he'd eat in the barn!  A king would not have endured the insults King Robb did at Frey's board.  The man was merciless.

Robb sure could tell mom to stuff it, but not Walder Frey, who insults him to his face.  Was it guilt that kept his lips shut?  After the third insult, power should have trumped guilt.

To leave GW behind!  Wow.  Didn't Robb learn anything from Bran's direwolf?  The dog alerted two or three times before King Robb even walked through the door.(Jon Snow plays stupid too with Ghost - not taking him to the meeting because of a boar.  Jon should have put his foot down and ordered Borroq to keep his boar away from Ghost, not the other way around.)

Is the direwolf definition from a Game of Thrones associated link?  I do not remember the paws - after all, Bran as Summer could not scale the tree at WF?  If he had a prehensile toe on his paw, with a claw, couldn't he have made it up the tree?  That definition reminds me of the Mutts in Hunger Games.

Edited by evita mgfs, 16 October 2012 - 12:02 AM.

[Lord Littlefinger's Lash]

Ramsay Gimp, on 15 October 2012 - 04:47 PM, said:

A couple things:

1. Harrion Karstark should get Karhold. He is the heir, and he fought for Robb honorably
2. House Bolton is awesome. Like Gurkhal, I hope they keep the Dreadfort
3. Releasing Jaime was much more damaging to Robb (though better morally) than killing the two boys. Robb should have made a show of "imprisoning" or exiling his mother, while secretly sending her messages saying that he forgave her/understood/loved her, etc.

It was treason Stannis would have burned her!