126 replies to this topic

[sumant30]

Urien the Ragged, on 27 July 2012 - 05:37 PM, said:

the Westerlings are beach-folk, so it's not a stretch to think that both Reynald and Jeyne spent a lot of their lives swimming in the sea. Incidentally, there is some question surrounding whether Reynald survived his fall into the river and whether Jeyne escaped Riverrun by swimming with the Blackfish. I think once one is revealed to have been a great swimmer, the other's fate will be revealed as well.

Although, I admit, I'm still questioning whether Robb survived the RW by warging first into Grey Wind, then Reynald. One needs only inspect the events leading up to Reynald plunging into the waters of the Green Fork. It's my theory that Robb was perhaps warging Grey Wind with his final words, much like Jon did with Ghost. Seeing that Grey Wind was tied up and could not escape, he then warged into Reynald who had surrendered previously. Reynald had a sudden change of heart and cut Grey Wind's bonds. However, it was too late for the wolf and Robb/Reynald, wounded himself, staggered off of the bridge. I will remind you that we didn't see him die or see his body washed ashore.

Robb may be biding his time somewhere, waiting for the perfect moment to prove who he really is, and take revenge upon his killers.

That's really a far stretched man to be true

[sumant30]

Urien the Ragged, on 27 July 2012 - 08:02 PM, said:

but you can imagine what it'd be like if he weren't

I think he is dead and dusted and has payed for his decisions i guess.

[sumant30]

aryagonnakill, on 27 July 2012 - 09:13 PM, said:

Varamyr sixskins could not successfully warg a human when his life depended on it, Rob an untrained warg at best could certainly not out due him.

Agreed.

[The Duke of J-Town]

Urien the Ragged, on 27 July 2012 - 08:02 PM, said:

but you can imagine what it'd be like if he weren't

I imagine people would be pissed off, and call his resurrection a cop-out that cheapens all the repercussions of the Red Wedding.

[sumant30]

The Duke of J-Town, on 28 July 2012 - 06:30 AM, said:

I imagine people would be pissed off, and call his resurrection a cop-out that cheapens all the repercussions of the Red Wedding.

It would diminish the effect of RW.

[valyrian_steel]

First, why does everyone call her Jeyne Westerling...I do it myself.  She's Jeyne Stark for whatever that's worth.  The only thing that matters is if she's pregnant.  If she isnt she might as well become a FM because she is no one.

[Zupoleon]

I also think we're more likely to see a POV from the Blackfish rather than Jeyne.  ...And yes, I do think she is alive and pregnant; too many subtle differences between Jaime's impression of the Jeyne he meets and the Jeyne Catlyn describes.

For all the people dismissing the possibility that a pregnant Jeyne would survive the swim, what about the fact that the Blackfish has extensive knowledge and experience of the river and it's currents.  Having someone like that to help her escape should definitely count for something, no?

[sumant30]

Zupoleon, on 30 July 2012 - 09:00 PM, said:

I also think we're more likely to see a POV from the Blackfish rather than Jeyne.  ...And yes, I do think she is alive and pregnant; too many subtle differences between Jaime's impression of the Jeyne he meets and the Jeyne Catlyn describes.

For all the people dismissing the possibility that a pregnant Jeyne would survive the swim, what about the fact that the Blackfish has extensive knowledge and experience of the river and it's currents.  Having someone like that to help her escape should definitely count for something, no?

Agreed.

[Urien the Ragged]

The Duke of J-Town, on 28 July 2012 - 06:30 AM, said:

I imagine people would be pissed off, and call his resurrection a cop-out that cheapens all the repercussions of the Red Wedding.

i agree that it would piss people off, but then again, people were pissed off when he was killed.

[GoldenVale]

sumant30, on 26 July 2012 - 04:49 AM, said:

Will we get jeyne westerling pov in windws of winter, if we do get will probably come to know how deeper were the westerlings involved in red wedding and also it will answer our questions regarding whether she is pregnant with rob's heir, because if she is then winterfell claim will become intresting with robb's will stating jon and bran being alive and also a junir robb on the way.What do you think guys?

I agree that a Jeyne POV is only likely in the prologue or the epilogue (if there are any in TWOW).

I should also point out that Jeyne being pregnant is very unlikely as in the Dance of Dragons when Jaime talks to her mother (Sybell) , and her mother tells him or at least claims that she made Jeyne drink potions that supposedly act as contraceptives (while I say claims for security's sake it is likely true as we also find out in this chapter that Sybell is a huge bitch), getting her to drink them by lying and saying they were fertility potions. This of course reveals that Jeyne's parents or at the very least her mother were indeed involved in the Red Wedding, as Sybell states that she did this as she had a deal with Tywin Lannister that her son would be able to marry a high born lord. This also shouldn't be surprising considering that the Westerling's were Lannister banner-men  from the start and Jeyne's father (Garwen I think his name is) was in the main Lannister host in GOT till he got captured and was only released after Jeyne married Robb.

Given all of this a Jeyne POV is highly unlikely. I think given her lack of character development in the book she was merely a plot device that GRRM is done with.

[ThundergodCid]

GoldenVale, on 02 August 2012 - 07:12 PM, said:

I agree that a Jeyne POV is only likely in the prologue or the epilogue (if there are any in TWOW).

I should also point out that Jeyne being pregnant is very unlikely as in the Dance of Dragons when Jaime talks to her mother (Sybell) , and her mother tells him or at least claims that she made Jeyne drink potions that supposedly act as contraceptives (while I say claims for security's sake it is likely true as we also find out in this chapter that Sybell is a huge bitch), getting her to drink them by lying and saying they were fertility potions. This of course reveals that Jeyne's parents or at the very least her mother were indeed involved in the Red Wedding, as Sybell states that she did this as she had a deal with Tywin Lannister that her son would be able to marry a high born lord. This also shouldn't be surprising considering that the Westerling's were Lannister banner-men  from the start and Jeyne's father (Garwen I think his name is) was in the main Lannister host in GOT till he got captured and was only released after Jeyne married Robb.

Given all of this a Jeyne POV is highly unlikely. I think given her lack of character development in the book she was merely a plot device that GRRM is done with.

I wholeheartedly agree, it complete neuters the horror the reader feels during that scene.  I read it, and recalled back when Jeyne tells Catelyn that her mother makes her a fertility potion every night..that revelation was a kick in the gut to the reader...but the 'Jeyne is Pregnant' theory would make that entire conversation with Jaime and Sybell pointless and unnecessary.

[sumant30]

GoldenVale, on 02 August 2012 - 07:12 PM, said:

I agree that a Jeyne POV is only likely in the prologue or the epilogue (if there are any in TWOW).

I should also point out that Jeyne being pregnant is very unlikely as in the Dance of Dragons when Jaime talks to her mother (Sybell) , and her mother tells him or at least claims that she made Jeyne drink potions that supposedly act as contraceptives (while I say claims for security's sake it is likely true as we also find out in this chapter that Sybell is a huge bitch), getting her to drink them by lying and saying they were fertility potions. This of course reveals that Jeyne's parents or at the very least her mother were indeed involved in the Red Wedding, as Sybell states that she did this as she had a deal with Tywin Lannister that her son would be able to marry a high born lord. This also shouldn't be surprising considering that the Westerling's were Lannister banner-men  from the start and Jeyne's father (Garwen I think his name is) was in the main Lannister host in GOT till he got captured and was only released after Jeyne married Robb.

Given all of this a Jeyne POV is highly unlikely. I think given her lack of character development in the book she was merely a plot device that GRRM is done with.

Although this may be true there are too many discrepancies when jamie sees jeyne and catelyn sees jeyne.

[sumant30]

ThundergodCid, on 02 August 2012 - 09:08 PM, said:

I wholeheartedly agree, it complete neuters the horror the reader feels during that scene.  I read it, and recalled back when Jeyne tells Catelyn that her mother makes her a fertility potion every night..that revelation was a kick in the gut to the reader...but the 'Jeyne is Pregnant' theory would make that entire conversation with Jaime and Sybell pointless and unnecessary.

It can go both ways it can show us that westerling were playing a double game, because before that they had approached kevan regarding hand of one of his sons but he refused it so they also made a deal with tywin and were also counting on robb to be a king but as he failed sybell tried to abort the pregnancy but meanwhile jeyne escaped with the blackfish.

[EnragedFilia]

There are other possibilities, of course. Lord Westerling might have been willing to stick with Robb until the end for honor's sake, and his overly ambitious wife made the deal with Tywin on her own. They could have been playing both sides and using their daughter as a tool to end up with a good deal no matter who won the war. They might have simply stumbled on some evidence of Frey's plans and rushed to take advantage of the situation rather than going down with the rest of the doomed army (remember that even if Robb hadn't walked into the trap, his army was probably too small to matter without the Frey forces). It's even possible that the Jeyne who appears in Feast is an imposter and that the real one is elsewhere and pregnant, but that would require Sybell to be making a lot of effort and taking a big risk for very little chance of gaining anything.

[HopeForSpring]

I change my mind constantly as to whether the Jeyne-switch is real or wishful thinking.

I wonder if they'll clear it up in the TV show (2 years from now, I know). We, the viewers, will know immediately if it is the same actress or not if there is some switching scene... or they may do more off screen.

[EnragedFilia]

3 years; they announced that ASOS will occupy the third and fourth seasons, because it's longer than the first two and they won't try to shoot more than 10 episodes at a time.

[HopeForSpring]

Double AARRGGHH!

Edited by HopeForSpring, 03 August 2012 - 09:39 PM.

[sumant30]

HopeForSpring, on 03 August 2012 - 08:44 PM, said:

I change my mind constantly as to whether the Jeyne-switch is real or wishful thinking.

I wonder if they'll clear it up in the TV show (2 years from now, I know). We, the viewers, will know immediately if it is the same actress or not if there is some switching scene... or they may do more off screen.

Actually i think the show has gone haywire frm 2nd season.

[sumant30]

EnragedFilia, on 03 August 2012 - 06:53 PM, said:

There are other possibilities, of course. Lord Westerling might have been willing to stick with Robb until the end for honor's sake, and his overly ambitious wife made the deal with Tywin on her own. They could have been playing both sides and using their daughter as a tool to end up with a good deal no matter who won the war. They might have simply stumbled on some evidence of Frey's plans and rushed to take advantage of the situation rather than going down with the rest of the doomed army (remember that even if Robb hadn't walked into the trap, his army was probably too small to matter without the Frey forces). It's even possible that the Jeyne who appears in Feast is an imposter and that the real one is elsewhere and pregnant, but that would require Sybell to be making a lot of effort and taking a big risk for very little chance of gaining anything.

Ya its again a loose end.

[Greengrace]

I believe they caught a boat in Oldtown in Feast of Crows right before going to the Citadel same witnesses an old man (blackfish) needed help entering a boat and a girl with a babe no older then Gilly's babe. The thing that struck me as odd was that none of them was described not even a little didn't even say if babe was girl or boy. I think thats important why notice them if they're no ones but yet not describe them. Just a thought.