Jon Snow (Spoilers)

[The Dragon has three heads]

Some great idea here, some go too far, others not far enough. No matter how Jon comes back it has to be shocking-it has to make the hairs on the back of your neck stand up or why bother killing him-or infer kling him unless you have a solid, believable and plot shaking way of brining him back. All theories aside, and I have a few, I trust in GRRMs vision.

[Aerys Blackfyre]

Jon is not dead

To live is to die

[Budj]

Even if Jon really died, I doubt very much that a ressurrected Jon will feel free from his Night Watch Oath

I like to think of it as he is free from the chains of the NW. Jon will not relinquish his role as a force against the impending invasion, but freeing him from the technicalities of the vows allows him to actually gather a force in the North (speculatively via Robb's will and the loyalty he has won from the Wildlings) which ends up making his job much easier.

[The Manticore Knight]

I like to think of it as he is free from the chains of the NW. Jon will not relinquish his role as a force against the impending invasion, but freeing him from the technicalities of the vows allows him to actually gather a force in the North (speculatively via Robb's will and the loyalty he has won from the Wildlings) which ends up making his job much easier.

The North has helped the Night Watch several times in the past(at the beginning of the series, Ned talks abouts going north). The Lord Commander of the Nigth Watch beeing free of some technicakities of the vow was not a pre requisite

[Bastard of Godsgrace]

The North has helped the Night Watch several times in the past(at the beginning of the series, Ned talks abouts going north). The Lord Commander of the Nigth Watch beeing free of some technicakities of the vow was not a pre requisite

Boltons are obviously not going to help the Night Watch. If Jon is to remove them from power, he needs to be free from those technicalities.

[Its Not So Littlefinger]

I think that we will see the same ritual bran saw in one of his visions from the Wierwood be used to bring back Jon. The one i am referring to is the woods witch in white garb that sacrifices some man by cutting his throat with a golden sickle. I could see Val as the woods witch and Theon as the sacrifice. Theon has already expressed his wish to die to the old gods and is desperate for a release from his tortured life. I feel that if he could aid the Starks by doing this he would die with some redemption.edit- sorry in advance if someone suggested this prior to my posting.

Awesome, if Jon is "dead" and needs to be "resurrected" (and those are two big Ifs), then I see this as the best way to go as it prevents Mel from getting her ashy hands on the situation. That said you're essentially combining elements from two of my favorite threads/theories about Val and about Theon's fate being a sacrifice in front of a Weirwood. The person on the Theon thread thought it would be Bran using the sacrifice to help Jon, which somehow didn't seem right to me, but this fixes that part somewhat with it being Val, maybe with the help of Bran. Good work!

[kitkat]

Forgive me if this has been posted elsewhere, but this is my first time posting. I wanted to bring up the vision taht Dany had in the House of the Undying. Rhaegar was holding a brown-haired boy, looked at Dany, and said that his was the song of ice and fire. We know Aegon, or Young Griff, has silver hair like his father, so this has to be Jon. Therefore, it would make Jon the most central figure in the series and he would not die, at least, not until the end.

As to think how I think he will be revived...Bran as he is warged into Summer, sees him through Ghost. He then sends Coldhands (as the Children of the Forest will have no part of any of what is going on outside) to help. It is here where we find out more about Coldhands, and the fate of Benjen Stark, who I think will be the one to save a not-yet dead Jon. Yes, I know Ben is not Coldhands, but for some reason, I believe that we find out what happened to Benjen when we learn more about Coldhands...perfect opportunity here. Bran will be the one to tell us more about the Land of Always Winter. His was the first POV we were introduced to, and his will be the last we hear from...much like a narrator's.

[squnchyTHEconchy]

i like ur idea^

[Jolene Brown]

Forgive me if this has been posted elsewhere, but this is my first time posting. I wanted to bring up the vision taht Dany had in the House of the Undying. Rhaegar was holding a brown-haired boy, looked at Dany, and said that his was the song of ice and fire. We know Aegon, or Young Griff, has silver hair like his father, so this has to be Jon. Therefore, it would make Jon the most central figure in the series and he would not die, at least, not until the end.

I don't think that's right. Rhaegar is with Elia in the scene, I think, and it's pretty well established that the boy is aegon. I don't remember him having brown hair, although I guess someone should look it up and check (I just looked something else up, so I'm too lazy - that was my one expenditure of looking up effort for the day).

[Jem]

Forgive me if this has been posted elsewhere, but this is my first time posting. I wanted to bring up the vision taht Dany had in the House of the Undying. Rhaegar was holding a brown-haired boy, looked at Dany, and said that his was the song of ice and fire. We know Aegon, or Young Griff, has silver hair like his father, so this has to be Jon. Therefore, it would make Jon the most central figure in the series and he would not die, at least, not until the end.

I don't think that's right. Rhaegar is with Elia in the scene, I think, and it's pretty well established that the boy is aegon. I don't remember him having brown hair, although I guess someone should look it up and check (I just looked something else up, so I'm too lazy - that was my one expenditure of looking up effort for the day).

There is no mention of the baby's hair, brown or otherwise. No description at all of the baby, only that it is a newborn and that he is a boy. GRRM has confirmed that this is a vision of Rhaegar, Elia and Aegon.

[armidil0]

There is no mention of the baby's hair, brown or otherwise. No description at all of the baby, only that it is a newborn and that he is a boy. GRRM has confirmed that this is a vision of Rhaegar, Elia and Aegon.

It's a vision of Rhaegar and Elia because he later says that there needs to be one more, that the dragon has to have three heads. Basically, I'm gonna fuq Lyanna now, kai thanx.

[mushroomshirt]

As to think how I think he will be revived...Bran as he is warged into Summer, sees him through Ghost. He then sends Coldhands (as the Children of the Forest will have no part of any of what is going on outside) to help. It is here where we find out more about Coldhands, and the fate of Benjen Stark, who I think will be the one to save a not-yet dead Jon. Yes, I know Ben is not Coldhands, but for some reason, I believe that we find out what happened to Benjen when we learn more about Coldhands...perfect opportunity here. Bran will be the one to tell us more about the Land of Always Winter. His was the first POV we were introduced to, and his will be the last we hear from...much like a narrator's.

Not sure Coldhands can help since Jon is south of the wall and Coldhands has to stay on the north side.

I think based on Mel's POV chapter where she says she sees Jon surrounded by skulls and going from man to wolf to man again that somehow warging into Ghost will factor into his survival. Of course many others have also made this point!

[Elementite]

Someting's been bugging me about this Resurrecting Jon stuff, if he comes back won't he be UnJon. Won't that also mean he'll be entirely focused and obsessed on the last thing he planned to do, which is seize Winterfell. And if UnCat is any indication, he'll want whoever is currently in control dead, even if it's an ally.

[Winds of Winter blow cold]

Someting's been bugging me about this Resurrecting Jon stuff, if he comes back won't he be UnJon. Won't that also mean he'll be entirely focused and obsessed on the last thing he planned to do, which is seize Winterfell. And if UnCat is any indication, he'll want whoever is currently in control dead, even if it's an ally.

Well, the theory is, if his soul is safely else where-in Ghost, the Wierwoods, etc-he wouldn't suffer the "loss of self" that Dondorion & UnCat did, particularly if the catch him quick or he is preserved by the cold.

[Zombie Ice Dragon]

I thought it was a dead giveaway at the end of adwd that Jon would warg into his ghost at the end (assuming he dies). I wish I could give page numbers for evidence, but there are a few things throughout the book that point to this conclusion:

1. The prologue. Varamyr dies and is permanently wagged into his favorite wolf. His spirit remains in the wolf until the beast takes over. Bran sees him later in the book through Summer's eyes. This is another foreshadowing, I believe that after Ghost escapes the Wall, Bran will find him and help him out. NOT MELISANDRE.

2. Another point in adwd when Jon, Mel and Ghost are talking. Mel talks about the bond between Jon and Ghost and how it runs deeper than he thinks. There might be a Mel pov chapter where she talks about this as well.

3. Ghost, his location and his attitude, is frequently mentioned in the final Jon chapter in adwd. I suspected that GRRM wanted his readers to take note of that. Poor Ghost is locked in The Lord Commander's room, but I'm sure the young direwolf will make his escape.

But yeah that's my theory on the date of Jon Snow. I have a few more thoughts/ideas that go along with it but those are the main points.

EDIT: So I was thinking a little more about this and now I feel like I should just get the rest of my ideas off my chest.

Towards the end of A Dance With Dragons it is pretty clear that Jon is somewhat disconnected from the rest of the Night's Watch. All of a sudden he is allowing wildlings to not only cross the border but to also join the Watch. This is blasphemous to some of Jon's brethren. It seems that only us, the readers, and Jon realize that the original purpose of the Wall was for the Others. Jon is preparing for the worst - an invasion of ice zombies - while no one else has any idea what is going on. All of our lords and ladies of Westeros have their heads so far up their own asses that they won't even realized they are all screwed until it is far too late.

The point I'm trying to make is that whatever "game of thrones" that is being played in Westeros really doesn't matter in the face of the zombie horde. Especially once Jon meets up with Bran in Winds of Winter and travels even further beyond the Wall, we will see how meaningless it is to sit on the Iron Throne (without dragons anyway). While things have certainly gone awry up at the Wall, the zombie attack is still impending and that is what really matters. Jon figured that out and it got him killed =(

[conwaysuccess]

I think jon snow is not fully dead if grrm wants him to live so probably the wildlings will save him

I agree I think he lives and there will be no need to resurrect him.

[Budj]

Someting's been bugging me about this Resurrecting Jon stuff, if he comes back won't he be UnJon. Won't that also mean he'll be entirely focused and obsessed on the last thing he planned to do, which is seize Winterfell. And if UnCat is any indication, he'll want whoever is currently in control dead, even if it's an ally.

It depends on how he gets resurrected jf he is in fact "dead" dead.... We have a few different types observed. I think it goes against Jons story line for a Resurrection from Mel. And she is the obvious choice right now. I'm more inclined to think it will be a blood sacrifice if it comes down to that. Like drogos botched resurrection except Jons consciousness is maintained in ghost so he isn't a vegetable like drogo was. I think bran and BR might have a role in it... Worst case scenario "the cold" he felt is winter making its mark on him and Jon comes back as a super wight... I hope not.

[Zombie Ice Dragon]

I can totally imagine Jon becoming the King of the Dead

[evita mgfs]

Martin emphasizes Jon Snow’s “Stark look” so much throughout the series that I doubt Jon’s ‘physical’ body will die; however, if it does, Mel has already established that “the bones remember” – which is substantiated in Bran’s POV with Brynden Rivers and the dead bones of assorted COF, greenseers, singers, enthroned in the vaults, buried in the roots of trees and earth to sing in a language men forgot but the trees remember – yet some of those singers also live on in the ravens, as Bran experiences.

V6S also proves that the bones remember – but after time, as Haggon says, “‘They say you forget,’ Haggon had told him, a few weeks before his own death. ‘When the man’s flesh dies, his spirit lives on inside the beast, but every day his memory fades and the beast becomes a little more a wolf, until nothing of the man is left and only the beast remains” (12).

“V6S knew the truth of that. When he claimed the eagle that had been Orell’s, he could feel the other skinchanger raging at his presence Orell had been slain by the turncloak Jon Snow, and his hate for his killer had been so strong that V6S found himself hating the beastling boy as well” (12).

Before V6S joins with One-Eye, his “spirit” travels into the weirwood, into earth, and stone, etc.. If V6S did not have the warging gift, he would have met the fate established by the COF.

However, Martin foreshadows, or intimates, Jon warging Ghost when V6S thinks,

“Mance should have let me take the direwolf. There would be a second life worthy of a king” (12). That is, if Jon is Lyanna’s and Rhaegar’s, or if Jon is the Prince Who Is Promised, or if Robb named Jon King of the North, Lord of Winterfell, Warden of the North, and dismissed his crow vows.

So –Jon will warg Ghost –

Mance boasts about accessing Jon’s window in the armory – Ghost exits via window [Jon, like Ned, oft opened windows]; and since Martin details the drifting snow – the jump from the armory escape is made easier with less of a distance to scale – Ghost’s leap will be buffered by the snow, as Martin established when Theon and Jeyne Poole jumped from the Walls of Winterfell.

And since Ghost is an agent of Brynden Rivers, i.e., Bran’s POV: “In a sense . . . Those you call the COF have eyes as golden as the sun, but once in a great while one is born amongst them with eyes as red as blood, or green as the moss on a tree in the heart of the forest. By these signs do the gods mark those chosen to receive the gift. The chosen are not robust, and their quick years upon the earth are few for every song must have its balance. But once inside the wood they linger long indeed. A thousand eyes, a hundred skins, wisdom deep as the roots of anient trees. Greenseers’” (452).

This leads me to believe that Ghost’s wolf instincts will trump Jon’s human instincts, and he will head for Bran’s cave [Martin already established that Ghost knows how to get around the Wall – he did so to reunite with Jon to convince him to deny Stannis’s offer – for Ghost’s red eyes and white fur were the ‘old gods’ and Jon refused to give up his old gods] instead of Winterfell. [Although I like the irony of ‘a Ghost in Winterfell’].

I am not suggesting Jon has greensight; as BR says, ‘blood’ makes one a greenseer, so IF Jon is half Targ, I don’t think he qualifies – but that can be argued against as well.

I do think there will most certainly be a Ghost POV in WOW – in which he will travel to Bran. Guided by Mormont’s raven and then perhaps “the murder of ravens” who guided Bran’s journey. Martin hints at a parallel journey for Jon similar to Bran’s – i.e., Ghost will meet V6S, but kill One-Eye.

Jon’s Stark body will be preserved in his absence – that is, his bones will not be burned. As predicted in a Bran dream, he sees Jon in ice cells. Whether Jon truly dies, I am not sure. Does it matter if HIS Bones Remember?

At some point, Ghost will need to return Jon to his body before Jon becomes the beast and forgets his spirit [Haggon and V6S]. Either way, Jon will reanimate his body – whether he is kept alive or whether he is dead. [Martin establishes groundwork for either fate].

I fancy a dead Jon, or sexy vampire, not the wights or Others. Jon will be a ‘new’ species – one born of a warg reanimating his former host, one that is dead. Since the COF live in ravens whose eyes hold secrets yet their bones remember, so Jon, under Bran’s tutelage, will learn – for the power is strong in both.

[Black Crow]

"Oh you think he's dead do you?" GRRM :cool4: