Jon Snow (Spoilers)
Posted 31 July 2012 - 01:37 PM
Posted 31 July 2012 - 04:26 PM
There have been several times when characters' chapters have ended in cliffhangers where you are lead to believe they might have died. Tyrion has a few of these himself.
Posted 31 July 2012 - 07:08 PM
Later in the book there could be a Jon POV(maybe the epilogue after the wall falls?) where his spirit looks down on his body and is joined by the Kings in the North/Lords of WF. He asks if he belongs there and is answered with a no. He looks sad and broken when out of the crowd Lyanna comes with Ned (whic at this point his bones have been returned as well). She tells him that he doesn't belong there because he is not a King in the North or a Lord of Winterfell. He is the King of Westeros and Lord of them all, he is the prince that was promised. As Jon looks around all the KotN and LoWF kneel before him. Magic of the Old gods if funneled from the heart tree and Jon is resurrected. Jon stands and unsheaths Longclaw and the blade lights up the crypts of WF with a dream of spring. BOOM!
Or Jon is going to become a wight, it's one or the other.
Posted 31 July 2012 - 09:24 PM
Posted 01 August 2012 - 10:01 AM
Posted 01 August 2012 - 01:12 PM
I do not see Tormund leading a killing spree. Maybe in retribution for Jon Snow's attackers? More than anything, I see the queens men and NW getting overrun by the white walkers and getting wiped out that way. I see Tormund & co fleeing.
I guess im just kind of sick of the undead element of the books. UnCat, UnGregor, UnVictarion(?), Dondarrion...too much revival makes it kind of hokey.
Posted 01 August 2012 - 01:49 PM
Posted 01 August 2012 - 05:27 PM
When the red star bleeds and the darkness gathers, Azor Ahai shall be born again amidst smoke and salt...
red star = Mel
smoke = Jon's wounds
salt = Bowen Marsh's tears
Also, Lightbringer was forged three times. Longclaw underwent two changes so far. First, Mormont bear. Second, direwolf for Jon. Maybe the third will be from stabbing Melisandre, turning it into Lightbringer.
Edited by Sinslash, 01 August 2012 - 05:27 PM.
Posted 01 August 2012 - 07:57 PM
Posted 01 August 2012 - 10:45 PM
Posted 02 August 2012 - 01:29 AM
There's also a lot of talk of freezing bodies in the ice -- it's not hard to see that playing a role.
One thing I don't think is likely is any POVs-as-spirits, or Jon meeting ancestors or anything like that. There's a rising level of magic, but it's completely off-tone of this series to have actively conscious spirits or ghosts. Visions, sure. Explained collective memory of trees in unclear, uncontrolled flashbacks.
But Lyanna appearing to Jon and telling him things like Obi Wan Kenobi? No, that's decidedly off tone to me.
Posted 02 August 2012 - 07:44 AM
stannis doesnt need to hear from Bran. Stannis will have access to rickan once the onion knight acquires him. Also, he has Theon and i bet you Theon will give up that information
Posted 02 August 2012 - 01:25 PM
Where would Rickon get the knowledge of a secret passage into Winterfell? Unless Luwin told Osha before they left and that was the gap there. It's possible but Bran seems more likely if there actually is a secret passage and Stannis finds out about it. Theon doesn't know either.
Posted 02 August 2012 - 03:22 PM
Posted 02 August 2012 - 04:04 PM
They placed 2 wights near castle black so they could rise again and kill Mormont and Jon Snow to create distress in the Nights Watch. I think they didn't kill Jon because of Ghost. That leads me to think the Others might sense Jon is Azor Ahai reborn. I get killing Mormont, but not Jon, unless you knew that he could be the reincarnation of what stopped them before. It is kind of thin but it makes sense to me.
Posted 02 August 2012 - 06:40 PM
However I do think that if he's dead and then raised, he will be in the same condition as Coldhands.
Beric and UnCat are results of raisings done by believers of the Red God. I'm thinking Coldhands is the same, just done by the Old Gods, as will Jon be.
Posted 03 August 2012 - 08:27 AM
I know the more popular fan theory is Stannis will become the Night's King, but this is A Song of Ice and Fire, after all. The climax being a great war between the dragon of ice and the dragon of fire would be fitting, wouldn't it?
Edited by Elrond Hubbard, 03 August 2012 - 08:36 AM.
Posted 03 August 2012 - 10:29 AM
Posted 03 August 2012 - 01:58 PM
"In the cold night air the wound was smoking. “Ghost,” he whispered. Pain washed over him. Stick them with the pointy end. When the third dagger took
him between the shoulder blades, he gave a grunt and fell face-first into the snow. He never felt the fourth knife. Only the cold …"
It's his POV and we know there is a fourth knife stab which he did not feel so he must have seen it. Other people have pointed out that he probably saw it while he's in Ghost. I suspect Mel will try to heal his body while he's warged into ghost or his body will be taken over by a wight and then he'll fight the wight for control of his body once he tries to return from Ghost.
The first theory is more likely.
The second is the crackpot
I don't really see any other ways out than those 2.
Posted 03 August 2012 - 05:10 PM
When we've read POVs of the Starks in their wolves ,their consciousness is that of the wolf. They see thing in non-human terms . He whispers "Ghost.."..well they are bonded, even if Jon hasn't learned to fully utilize the bond, and Ghost has come to his aid before..and he's recently been warned repeatedly to keep Ghost near...but I think the rest of that passage sounds like Jon's thinking , not Ghost's. Ghost wouldn't think Stick 'em with the pointy end, e.g. ... If pain washed over him from Ghost's POV ,it would be Ghost's pain.
However , Jon has often taken note of Bowen and who's with him... Just previous to the attack, Jon noticed his little clique in the sheildhall .. Bowen himself ,Wick Whittlestick , Left Hand Lew , and Alf of Runnymudd. Four of them.... Outside , he sees Wick and Bowen attack him, feels a third blow from behind , and would logically expect a fourth to follow...He never feels the fourth blow ( the blow he was expecting ) , but the narrative goes on to say he feels the cold..So Jon is still capable of feeling, at that point ..We don't actually know if he loses consciousness right then, or not..and we won't know for at least two years. ( Dang it !)
Yes , I think any number of things could have happened to interrupt the conspirator's attack ( maybe ghost showing up or someone else stepping in ) .. But I think there could also be another simpler answer. I think the third blow most likely came from Left Hand Lew ( if so, assuming he was directly behind Jon, might being left handed have messed with his aiming for anything vital ? Just asking , IDK..) . Then, we've already seen how ,in the sheildhall , Othell and his builders distance themselves from Bowen and co. ( perhaps already thinking the conspiracy's started going too far.)
Keeping that in mind , Alf of Runnymudd is a Queen's man. We know he blames Jon for the death of his probable lover, Garth Greyfeather , and Alf might be right there with Bowen in his heart, ( and if there was no one around to see ), but he had to know he'd be putting all of Selyse's party "in it" if he struck a blow publicly... What with that and Ser Patrek being torn limb from limb right there at the same time , Alf might well have decided not to take part, after all.
Edited by bemused, 03 August 2012 - 05:24 PM.