461 replies to this topic

[who are you?]

So here is my theory.  A Dance with Dragons starts with the prolouge that features Varamyr.  In that chapter it is established that a warg can jump into the skin of animal that he is bonded with.  Varamyr also says that Jon is a very powerful Warg, but that he does not know it.  This is also established earlier with Orell and his eagle.  I think that Jon dies, but is able to inhabit Ghost's body and wanders north into the land of "always winter".  In response to what happens to Jon, Martin has said he won't tell, but that we would go much farther North than before.  I think it is Ghost/Jon that goes north.

[Lord Liam DarkStark]

I think chapters from ghost's point of view would get old quick. I like when there is warging in chapters but the wolf wouldn't have jon's thoughts. Think about bran a much better warg when he is in summer. He is the wolf prince. He doesn't have much internal conflict with the actual thoughts of bran. So if its jon as ghost he'll just be hunting and such. Instead of actually being on a mission. What would we get from it >_<

[Gaius the Builder]

Would a warg, no matter how powerful, who doesn't know or hasn't trained their abilities be able to do such a thing? From all of the wargs we've seen so far, it seems that there's a great deal of training or practice involved in being able to achieve such a thing -- living through another animal.

I think Jon is dead or right on the brink, but we haven't seen the end of him. I noticed something peculiar when I read that paragraph, the one of his stabbing: it says smoke came out of one of his wounds. I get the whole warm blood + cold air = steam (smoke) thing, but maybe there's something more, something involving Melisandre perhaps, that we haven't seen.

Here's what I see happening for Jon (summed up):

He's dead, or close to it, bargains some deal with Melisandre or Melisandre gives him the Kiss of Life like Thoros did for Barristan. Then he goes on to fight against the Others, maybe become a part of some prophecy, who knows. When the series ends, and I'm fairly certain he'll be alive at this point, he's going to become Lord of Winterfell / Warden of the North if not anything else. Robb declared Jon his heir, and if that writing or whatever survives until the seventh book, along with Jon, it would be so.

[NorthRemembers]

Ironic twist if Raydar's kid was used to bring him back to life, no? Granted he should be in Tarly lands.

[Lord Liam DarkStark]

Mance's son is thousands of leagues away no? Don't think that's gunna happen. Jon has his own kings blood.

[Lord Davos Seaworth]

King of the Others

[NorthRemembers]

liam stark, on 12 September 2012 - 07:41 PM, said:

Mance's son is thousands of leagues away no? Don't think that's gunna happen. Jon has his own kings blood.

I understand that Mance's son is far away, I just thought it was well....and amussing thought.

[Budj]

Mel won't be resurrecting Jon.

[The Manticore Knight]

I don't think Jon will really die, so no need for unJon. Probably Mel or perhaps Val will save him. He didn't feel the fourth stab, so in my mind Ghost arrived in time to kill his fourth attacker. I expect Jon tho be in a coma state in his firsts chapter, warging Ghost, to wake up and find the wall in state of utter chaos

[ImpTyrion]

What is dead may never die, on 26 July 2012 - 03:21 PM, said:

This thread is for those who believe that Jon is dead and will somehow some way be brought back to life. I want to hear your theories (crackpots and all!!!) on his resurrection.

For those who think that he is dead and will not come back, we get it, you truly believe that Mr. Martin wasted his and our time with this character for 5 books only to be murdered in the most cowardly way by his own order. Makes perfect sense.


So anyway, I wrote this in a post on another thread but I wanted to put here anew.

I have put this together via the AA prophecy, Jon's dream in ADwD where he is standing atop the Wall with black armor covered in ice and a flaming sword (don't have my book with me right now, or I'd be more specific) and my own personal wishes for the story. Forgive me.

I believe that he is dead and his soul will warg Ghost for some time. (It would be awesome if GRRM gave us a POV or 2 from this angle) Meanwhile, Mel from her fire-visions will see that she will have to bring Jon back to life via some freaky R'hllor ceremony where she has to burn his body, with his sword, Longclaw, in a pyre instead of the kiss that Thoros uses. (Perhaps it will take her 3 tries, in accordance with the original AA)

Jon will comback as a hybrid version of himself and Ghost, his normal body with a few changes from Ghost (white hair; Targ feature for the R+L = J factor and ice; red eyes, fire), he will then pull his burning sword from the fire and plunge it into the heart of Mel, thus fulfilling the prophecy of AA. And will now be ready to kick some ass against The Others.

(The stone dragon part will come later when he is in the crypts of Winterfell and re-emerges from them with the truth of his parents; haven't quite worked this one out yet but that's what I'm leaning towards, not an actual stone dragon).


Anyway that's my hope for his character or something along those lines.

I love your way of thinking

[Lord Liam DarkStark]

I was thinking about the last words maester aemon says to jon.
Kill the boy, and let the man be born. The same thing he says to egg. Maybe a little more foreshadowing at AA

[evita mgfs]

liam stark, on 14 September 2012 - 01:01 AM, said:

I was thinking about the last words maester aemon says to jon.
Kill the boy, and let the man be born. The same thing he says to egg. Maybe a little more foreshadowing at AA

You know, I assumed Aemon's words to Jon were said in the spirit of advice, from a wise, loyal elder of the NW. Much like a parent, teacher, coach, commander, or any other in a position of authority, might tell his son, his student, his player or team, his troops, respectively, to 'grow up and put on his/their big-boy pants'. Aemon's words may simply be advice meant to motivate Jon Snow as LCofNW to behave and to lead men with the maturity of a man beyond Jon's years
should
Moreover, with Aemon leaving for the Citadel, taking with him all his vast knowledge, his years of experience, his insight into human nature, and so much more, Snow can no longer seek out Aemon for guidance. Essentially 'alone', Jon Snow must demonstrate wisdom, confidence,and sensitivity, but as a man responsible for leading other men, he must also face harsh criticism, complaints, resentment, dissatisfaction, giving unpopular orders and the like, and even though unpleasant, Jon must listen to his men without displaying a temper, and model for his black brothers all those admirable characteristics that a man of the Watch should embody.

On the other hand, if taken ‘literally’, Aemon may be intimating that JS must ‘kill’ himself, or allow the traitors to enact their assassination of Snow – either way, JS being Caesared will simply be a magically inspired illusion, a weaving of light and shadow to trick the untrained eye into believing JS, the LC, is dead:  “Kill the boy”.
From Aemon’s words, and so many others, JS will let the ‘new man’ be born – the one where he is half Targ.

[Lord Liam DarkStark]

Well I know it was meant as advice coming from aemon. Remeber he said that he said. The same thing to egg before him and bloodraven set out for the wall. I was just thinking cause jon tells himself kill the boy and let the man be born acouple of times through dance. He thinks of aemons words. So I was thinking since he is killed. Maybe he will be reborn the man he was meant to be. Lyanna and Rhaegers son.

[Budj]

liam stark, on 18 September 2012 - 12:52 PM, said:

Well I know it was meant as advice coming from aemon. Remeber he said that he said. The same thing to egg before him and bloodraven set out for the wall. I was just thinking cause jon tells himself kill the boy and let the man be born acouple of times through dance. He thinks of aemons words. So I was thinking since he is killed. Maybe he will be reborn the man he was meant to be. Lyanna and Rhaegers son.

I agree with this - Maester Aemon was wise even in matters of advice he didn't realize he is giving...

[Mattchoo]

As much as I would love to see Jon not being dead, I think George likes to hit us with brutal reality in terms of how fragile life is. There is no reason why Jon has not just been killed by disgruntled companions, they are the nights watch after all - made up largely of.. well, scumbags. So why is that such a shock, look at what happened with the old bear.  He has been fighting for his authority somewhat since the wildlings arrived, it was made clear to me that he has slowly lost power over the NW since then.

I think he has definitely been killed. If he hasn't though I will be over the moon.

It hasn't been a waste of time having him go on until now though at all, look how much the story has developed through him i.e. Stannis/Bolton saga and most importantly..wildlings beyond the wall.


*EDIT*   This demise was also predicted by Mellisandre was it not?

Edited by Mattchoo, 19 September 2012 - 03:19 AM.

[Lord Liam DarkStark]

He also like to make us think characters are dead when they are only seriously injured or miraculously survived. And mel can misenterpret the flames so I don't think that's enough evidence.

Edited by liam stark, 19 September 2012 - 03:43 AM.

[Targaryen_Rubies]

Interesting. As much as I would like Jon to be resurrected via ice magic perhaps a fire resurrection will best represent the song of ice and fire since Jon is heavily identified with ice. I don't like the idea of Melisandre resurrecting Jon, but it looks like it might go that way. They'll probably try to burn his body because he's technically dead as far as the people on the wall know and that's how they deal with the dead so they don't come back. Perhaps the culmination of fire magic and ice magic will effect Jon's body differently because his resurrection will be taking place in an area that is brimming with magic, a place of the old gods, and a place with the memory of his own ancestors. Uncat and others were brought back in places that either had no more magic or too little magic in the land that could effect their status once returned. The wall's magic might make all the difference in Jon's case.

[TheeMikeHoncho]

I think that we will see the same ritual bran saw in one of his visions from the Wierwood be used to bring back Jon. The one i am referring to is the woods witch in white garb that sacrifices some man by cutting his throat with a golden sickle. I could see Val as the woods witch and Theon as the sacrifice. Theon has already expressed his wish to die to the old gods and is desperate for a release from his tortured life. I feel that if he could aid the Starks by doing this he would die with some redemption.edit- sorry in advance if someone suggested this prior to my posting.

Edited by TheeMikeHoncho, 26 September 2012 - 01:32 AM.

[Gonzalo]

aryagonnakill, on 27 July 2012 - 12:34 PM, said:

I think you've got the jist of it, Mel's vision of Jon becoming ghost and then himself again is another indicator.  I'd diverge from your theory when you get to the crypts. I think we will learn about Jon's parents via Howland Reed.  I think if the crypts come into play it will either be some actual Stark ghost's kicking some serious Bolton ass, or Bran telling Stannis via weirwood that there is a secret way into Winterfell via the crypts.  I'm also open to the possibility that Jon will be in Ghost for a short while and go North as Ghost to find Benjen or something. I read some nice posts in regards to that theory, but I still think its more likely we'll learn about the far north via Bran.

The Cocky Wolf, on 29 July 2012 - 10:00 PM, said:

Like your theory first and foremost.

The way I see it the Wall is ripe for the taking, its going to be in disarray after the Lord Commanders death, what better time for the WoW to come and sweep over the shield that guards the realms of men. I mean if the Others dont show up soon how is GRRM gonna wrap everything up in two books?

I really believe that Jon will warg into Ghost and maybe he'll witness the Others coming to the Wall in a POV chap.(it would be ironic because he wouldn't be able to do anything).

The main reason I can see Jon coming back to life is to have a very important role in the following book, why else "kill" him then just bring him back again.
Maybe he'll take a part in the war seeing how his brothers dont want him to be LC anymore, (whats the point of him resuming his post as LC only to be killed by the Others, maybe) As Jon being the only son of Eddard still alive and with Stannis being able to make him a Stark, maybe hes the answer to uniting the north and getting them to back Stannis against the Iron Throne.

I really think GRRM is going to do something very unexpected with the AA prophecy. He has put in many obvious candidates forward but i think the final interpretation is going to include more than one person and a series of events that maybe havent happened yet. I think that the prophecies are going to come to fruition in very vague and ironic way, i dont think that AA is a super badass ninja dude armed with obsidian everything and killing Others left and right (point is that i dont think that AA is a sole person).

A resurrected Jon would also be free of his oath to the Night's Watch, by dying his Watch has ended.

[The Manticore Knight]

Gonzalo, on 26 September 2012 - 10:28 PM, said:

A resurrected Jon would also be free of his oath to the Night's Watch, by dying his Watch has ended.

Even if Jon really died, I doubt very much that a ressurrected Jon will feel free from his Night Watch Oath