405 replies to this topic

[Lady Lea]

The Dragonstone and Valyria questions are the same. ETA: the Citadel has the right question on the Tywin/Joanna match.

ETA2: the only one missing is the Meereenese knot question. It's bloody huge, so is anyone already working on it? I'm at uni now.

Edited by Lady Lea, 30 July 2012 - 07:52 PM.

[998]

Q: Arthur Dayne has been held up as the epitome of
chivalry. How could he put up with Aerys' crimes, ones
which horrified even Jaime?
A:

Well, keep reading...

This one interests me a lot.

[The Frostfangs]

998, on 30 July 2012 - 07:52 PM, said:

Q: Arthur Dayne has been held up as the epitome of
chivalry. How could he put up with Aerys' crimes, ones
which horrified even Jaime?
A:

Well, keep reading...

This one interests me a lot.

As Pippin said to Denethor : "He's Not Dead!". ( I hope)

Edited by The Frostfangs, 30 July 2012 - 07:58 PM.

[Ser_Patreck]

"15 - In dance we learn more about Brandon's characters and his interest in skirts, similar to Robert. Did Brandon have any bastards as well?

It's exaggeration to say that Brandon died before making a son. It has been established in the book already that Brandon didn't die a virgin. It could be that he has conceived many Snows all over, boys or girls, among all the lands he visited and more, could be that there's a Snow yet out there. What's clear is that he left no legitimate heir, conceived within the bonds of marriage"

The first, short answer seemed to be more adamant that Brandon had bastards. This actual answer make it seem more of an afterthought.

"20 - In Song, we see that marriages are almost always between great families as to create bonds and gain power and allies. In this context, there's always the strange with about Tywin marriage a cousin of his, especially knowing Tywin. Or was it really for love?

In general, noble houses do marriages of convenience to gain alliances. It's a practice common not only to the noble houses, but also the middle classes, and even the peasants: If somebody has a piece of land, you marry your daughter to somebody that has an even bigger piece of land in the hope it ends up being your grandson's .
About Tywin... (Long, long pause) Probably.
Ir could have been for love but there's another clear motive, that is it reinforce the family bloodlines. The Targaryen are the greatest example of this policy: They only marry inside the family to keep the blood pure and this way you avoid problems, like we talked about before, with distinct pretenders to the throne or the head of the house. If you have five brothers/siblings (I think he meant brothers, male, but who can tell) in a generation and each has many children, in two or three generations you find yourself with thirty potential heirs: There could be thirty people that call themselves Lannister or Frey, and that generates conflict, because all would be involved in hereditary fights to make the thrones theirs. This is, in the end, what originated the War of the Roses in England: An excess of candidates to the throne, Edward III's descendants. It's as bad not to have heirs, as it happened to Henry VIII, as to have too much. If you have five sons and wants to avoid problems, it's not a bad idea to marry the first son's firstborn daughter to the third son, this way you avoid conflicts and the blood keeps united. That is, this is the best guess about Tywin's marriage. It could be that Tytos arranged it, or even Tywin's grandfather, it all depends on the moment it was agreed upon, but I'd need to check it in my notes, because I can't remember off head.

Commentary: I think the pause was due to George trying to remember who arranged the marriage. If it was Tywin, then it was for love. If it was Tytos, it could be to strengthen the blood, or even as a gesture towards a secondary branch of the family. If it was Tytos' father, it could be to ensure bloodlines. I'm sorry, Tywin-wants-to-be-a-Targaryen folks, but there isn't much of a case to be made here.

Well, that's all, folks; Sleep shall now claim my mind. I'll be back tomorrow.

Edited by Ser_Patreck, 30 July 2012 - 08:15 PM.

[Liar]

Lady Lea, on 30 July 2012 - 07:40 PM, said:

ETA2: the only one missing is the Meereenese knot question. It's bloody huge, so is anyone already working on it? I'm at uni now.

working on it, there are some syntax problems with the original questions, its coming along

[Lady of Long Lake]

lojzelote, on 30 July 2012 - 01:47 PM, said:

I wish it were so. I hate social stigmas.

I think the North is less prejudicial. Look at how respectfully Maege and her warrior daughter are treated (compared to Brienne's treatment by Southerners:( ). And those wonderful Mormont ladies have lotsa children but no husbands !! and no one bats an eye at them. They are treated as equals.

Another aspect of the North's open-mindedness is that Ned and Robb hold Howland Reed in  highest regard. He's THE man to trust with a Will of the King or with a secret mission. The rest of the realm look down on them as freaks and frog-eaters. The Northerners know the Reed's worth and trust them to guard the most important region in the North- the Neck, the entrance to the North. The North does not care that the Reeds are culturally different and strange. They value them

[Lady Lea]

Liar, on 30 July 2012 - 08:01 PM, said:

working on it, there are some syntax problems with the original questions, its coming along

coolness, I guess this is everything then

[ARYa_Nym]

Lady of Long Lake, on 30 July 2012 - 08:04 PM, said:

I think the North is less prejudicial. Look at how respectfully Maege and her warrior daughter are treated (compared to Brienne's treatment by Southerners:( ). And those wonderful Mormont ladies have lotsa children but no husbands !! and no one bats an eye at them. They are treated as equals.

Another aspect of the North's open-mindedness is that Ned and Robb hold Howland Reed in  highest regard. He's THE man to trust with a Will of the King or with a secret mission. The rest of the realm look down on them as freaks and frog-eaters. The Northerners know the Reed's worth and trust them to guard the most important region in the North- the Neck, the entrance to the North. The North does not care that the Reeds are culturally different and strange. They value them

I don't know. When Arya was covering her arms in mud Sansa said that she looked like some ignorant bog woman. & she said that Jon gets jealous because he's a bastard which is similar to Rickard Karstark saying that Jon is sullen because he's a bastard.

Robb said that a bastard could never inherit Winterfell. He changed his mind but that's because of circumstance. & as I said earlier Cregan used bastard as an insult to Jon.

Lady Hornwood said this of Ramsay:

Quote

"... he told me no Bolton would be questioned by a woman. As if he were trueborn and had a right to the name’

Also, IIRC correctly they were considering a Tallhart over a bastard as heir.

Roose said of Ramsay:

Quote

“Yes,” Roose Bolton said. “His blood is tainted, that cannot be denied. Yet he is a good fighter, as cunning as he is fearless. When the ironmen cut down Ser Rodrik, and Leobald Tallhart soon after, it fell to Ramsay to lead the battle, and he did. He swears that he shall not sheathe his sword so long as a single Greyjoy remains in the north. Perhaps such service might atone in some small measure for whatever crimes his bastard blood has led him to commit.”

Unfortunately, Ramsay is probably "reaffirming" their beliefs.

[valyrian_steel]

Apple Martini, on 30 July 2012 - 12:07 PM, said:

I too am irked that it looks like we'll still have to keep waiting for the damn Rhaegar/Lyanna explanation. The jig is up George. We've figured it out. Just put us out of our misery.

The epilogue of ADoS will either be titled R+L=J or R+L≠J  

[Naathi Prince]

According to the bael the bard tale one of the Stark Kings was a bastard.

[ARYa_Nym]

Naathi Prince, on 30 July 2012 - 08:34 PM, said:

According to the bael the bard tale one of the Stark Kings was a bastard.

I don't believe that story. Ygritte said that the story might not be true and she also said that it was a Bael's truth. There was no one who could have legitimized the bastard at the time period anyway.

[Naathi Prince]

ARYa_Nym, on 30 July 2012 - 08:37 PM, said:

I don't believe that story. Ygritte said that the story might not be true and she also said that it was a Bael's truth. There was no one who could have legitimized the bastard at the time period anyway.

um his grandfather.

[LordBloodraven]

Ser_Patreck, on 30 July 2012 - 07:23 PM, said:

Ok, let's do this in order. I was going to do the Stark one now, but since Lady Lea is probably on it already, I'll keep going from the Moonsingers.

10 - "During Robert's Rebellion, what made a simple criminal like Davos to participate in the war helping Stannis?

Because he had onions! Haha and he asked himself, "where can I sell them for the price of gold? If I take them to King's Landing, they'll pay me the price of the onion, but if I take them to people that are starving, it's sure they'll pay me way better hahaha."

11 - Arthur Dayne. Nothing new here.

14 - "Can you tell us what happened in relation to Daenerys, Daemon Blackfyre and the Prince of Dorne?

Even tough they (Daenerys and Daemon) were in love, her brother, the King, was more worried about state matters than romantic matters. There were many years of clashes with Dorne, being incapable of defeating them, or integrating them to the Seven Kingdoms, and he wanted Dorne to stop from attacking the Realm. So it occurred to the King, since conquest had fallen, that a matrimonial alliance was the best way to cease hostilities, so he proposes to his sister to wed the Prince of Dorne, he uses her. It's a political marriage, pure and simple, a marriage of convenience to guarantee the union of Drone and the Seven Kingdoms. Also, he preferred to give his sister to the prince of Dorne than to his bastard brother, with whom he was having frequeng clashes over the fact that some people were saying he was the legitimate King. It was the last drop of water that overflew the cup of Daemon's patience, and from here comes the first of the Blackfyre Rebellions, basically because he had enough of taking everything that came from the king in stride."

Commentary: Interestingly, in other sources it's stated that Daenerys marriage to Maron was agreed to way before, by Baelor the Blessed (Daeron married Myriah, and the other half of the payment, so to speak, would come later, when a Targaryen woman would marry the Prince of Dorne). George seem to imply that the conflict with Dorne was ongoing, where other sources imply that Baelor made the peace and Daeron just consolidated it. Also, this piece also makes it seem that the Blackfyre Rebellion was Daemon's response to Daeron's attacks, where before I had the impression that Daeron was largely defending himself from his brothers tryinng his hand at usurpation.

Hmm...

Let's go on.

I had that impression too, that Baelor (i.e. Viserys II) negociated the marriages with Dorne and starting with Daeron-Myriah Martell, Dorne was in all but name a part of the 7 Kingdoms.

Daeron deciding to ship his sister to Dorne is not necessarily an attack on Daemon; it is very probable that Daemon was becoming a threat to his rule through his martial skills and his circle of friends so much that marrying him with a princess could serve only to embolden him, Besides, this stuff is weird since Daeron had a 11 year old son by the time of the Redgrass field (196 AL) so unless Daenerys was married in 183-84 (when Aegon IV would be alive), he couldn't be married to Daemon Blackfyre.... in a monogamous way

Lady Lea, on 30 July 2012 - 07:32 PM, said:

So there you have it folks - he did NOT say that Lyanna died with no children.

He said that "all of Ned's siblings are dead" - so, no hope for Benjen?

And who is this half-Stark living in the Vale? Will Sansa ever meet him?

The Stark maiden married one younger son of Lord Raymar Royce. Actually it is possible that Sansa and Myranda Royce are cousins once removed. And  since that Stark's daughters married into the Corbrays and the Templetons, Nasty Lyn Corbray might be kin to the Starks too.

[ARYa_Nym]

Naathi Prince, on 30 July 2012 - 08:58 PM, said:

um his grandfather.

I got the impression that he was dead already. Anyways, the story sounds romanticized and fake. It's not known in the North either because Jon didn't believe her.

[Ser Pollo Loco]

Dang, i figured R+L would have to come to the forefront IF Jon is dead and has to be resurrected, i hope that doesn't mean he is out of the game for the entire book

And there goes my hope (most likely) for Jamie going North, i really wanted to see the Jon/Jamie team, would have been hilarious

[David C. Hunter]

Naathi Prince, on 30 July 2012 - 12:12 PM, said:

Ben Stark?

Dorne will meet up with the Northerners!

[booknerd2]

This screwed me up. I really thought that at least by book 6 someone realizes or tells Jon or he finds out R&L and then there is a bit of time until the end of the book to take this in and digest and get from point A to B, and then book 7 is taking this revelation, this discovered identity, and whatever comes along with it and then there would be real action in 7 when it is now open and then everyone knows.

Or we find out a bit more info about R&L but not much in 6 because it has so much info to tell us about Ned, Benjen, Dayne, Reed, etc....just a lot that would explain about their motivations and what we think of them earlier in the books.

I don't know what to think anymore. I thought R & L would be the springboard into 7. Still absorbing possibilities and the ramifications. Or maybe Jon will find out or at least someone does and book six ends up with the set up of someone on their way to get to Jon or he finds out somehow. Looking more like Bran or Sam maybe.

???Brain is still marinating. Lot of info came out in that interview.

Just R&L pushed to 7 if it happens, and the Others in 7 I would think would be too much to cover.. Damn, that is a lot to leave for the end.

Or I could be absolutely wrong trying to armchair blueprint/architect here....lol!

Edited by booknerd2, 30 July 2012 - 09:36 PM.

[Liar]

Took a while and is to late to go back, here it is:

17- Now that we know how the "knot" of Mereen developed,what was really the problem with that part? Was it the order of the characters arriving to Dany? Who, when and how would free the dragons...?

A: An essential part in the development of Dance and the series is to see what was happening in Mereen. Basically, the story of Dany is there, once she arrives what she wants is to take control and become Queen, but she has a series of problems...

For starters, the rebellion of the Son's of the Harpy with almost-terrorist attacks and stealthy assassinations on the street, which creates instability in her court. On the other side she has the external danger with her Yunkish enemies, who have rearmed and are preparing and alliance, and sending emissaries to parley with her and make her submit to their wishes. There is also the situation in Astapor, she had sacked the city but from the ruins a new King emerged who proposes marriage to create and alliance between the two cities.

There is also the decision of whether open the fight pits or not (Remembering she has to try to calm the Yunkish noblemen), Daenerys is trying to solve this problems to settle her power as she tries to find different solutions and different agreements. For example, there is Daxos's offer with his thirteen ships fleet, which she rejects, therefore going from possible ally to enemy and trying to blockade the city. All this creates instability in the city and outside the walls the Yunkish are preparing for battle with a ready army.

Dany's hand is one of the most valuable assets along the novel, different men seek her favor, Hizdahr, for example, which is the favorite among the Mereenese nobles to make a reconciliation. Or Daario, this dangerous and charismatic mercenary, the only one who really gets her interest. On top all this is the palgue ravaging the city and the releasing of the dragons...

There is also a series of characters going towards Meereen to take into account, there's Quentyn Martell, Tyrion, Victarion Greyjoy with his iron fleet, archmaester Marwyn of Oldtown an Aegon with the Golden Company. There's also to stand out the situation in Volantis, which didn't happen to be as it was expected.

What worried me about this matters was kowing when each of this characters arrived to the city. When they arrived depended of when and where they departed from, and the medium of transportation. For that I had to consult what I wrote on Storm and Feast. Logically, I'm not hand tied and can take certain liberties, I can make some of the ones who departed later to arrive earlier by saying that one of the others had a drift, a shipwreck or an attack or whatever. But I did needed to exactly control the cronology and moment of arrival of each one of them, because each arrival has an impact in the dramatic development of the plot.

If Qentyn arrives with his marriage proposal much before Dany gets married, or if he arrives after she is already married, logically the result is going to be very different. So in order to know how evereything would work out, I wrote those two possibilities, and finally also a third: That Quentyn arrives a day before the wedding, when thare was practically no time to change anything. As you can see, all this changes the different dynamics of the group.

And on top of all of that, there is the return of Drogon, where Dany makes the decision of reopening the fighting pits that have been closed for decades, this desicion initially was going to be the first chapter of Dance, before Dance was a separate book from Feast.

I know the answer I'm giving you is a bit ambiguous and I'm drifting a little, but basically I'm trying to transmit to you the uncertainty and bewilderment I had at the time, trying to solve this situation... And that's why I always talked about of the knot. The material could only be one, I needed to develop correctly each one of the situations because they had influence in the general argument of the novel. In the end I got all of them to arrive but one, who finally, doesn't even appear in the book.

edit: some spelling

Edited by Liar, 30 July 2012 - 09:41 PM.

[Budj]

booknerd2, on 30 July 2012 - 09:34 PM, said:

This screwed me up. I really thought that at least by book 6 someone realizes or tells Jon or he finds out R&L and then there is a bit of time until the end of the book to take this in and digest and get from point A to B, and then book 7 is taking this revelation, this discovered identity, and whatever comes along with it and then there would be real action in 7 when it is now open and then everyone knows.

Or we find out a bit more info about R&L but not much in 6 because it has so much info to tell us about Ned, Benjen, Dayne, Reed, etc....just a lot that would explain about their motivations and what we think of them earlier in the books.

I don't know what to think anymore. I thought R & L would be the springboard into 7. Still absorbing possibilities and the ramifications. Or maybe Jon will find out or at least someone does and book six ends up with the set up of someone on their way to get to Jon or he finds out somehow. Looking more like Bran or Sam maybe.

???Brain is still marinating. Lot of info came out in that interview.

Just R&L pushed to 7 if it happens, and the Others in 7 I would think would be too much to cover.. Damn, that is a lot to leave for the end.

Or I could be absolutely wrong trying to armchair blueprint/architect here....lol!

We can only hope George does what you brought up and ties more clues into flashbacks / stories of other characters from the time period like Ned, Benjen, Lyanna, Rheagar and those that knew them.  Good chance since he isn't revealing it in book 6 that he ramps up the flag waving to foreshadow to those who don't frequent forums / haven't realized it yet.

[booknerd2]

And if Dany doesn't get to Westeros until 7...what the hell happens in 6?

Maybe more Stannis, Mel, Davos, Bran, and Dorne. Or Jaime, Brienne, Uncat....Arya....Sansa/LF/Robert. And then how far do their arcs go in 6 with so much going on in 7?

Oh, yeah, Aegon? And more characters I am not thinking of now. Sam and the Citadel...

Thinking out loud on the thread. Sorry.

Edited by booknerd2, 30 July 2012 - 10:00 PM.