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Is Jon Snow the true hero of this series?


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When has she ever showed signs of picking her people up and saving and protecting anyone when it doesn't involve her best interests.

Saving the Lhazareen women from being raped

Taking care of her khalasar when traveling through the Red Waste.

Taking care of the people dying of the pale mare

All the sacrifices she made in mereen

As for the OP, I don't think there will be one true hero in this series...And if there was to be one, it would be Bran.

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Jon is one of the few who cares for the welfare of all before himself and his honor. And who are the others like him? Aemon, Mance, Davos (will side with him at some point), Sam. Jon and his team are the best characters. They must be the heroes.



I would say the new Jaime (and Brienne), the remaining Starks, and a few Northmen are the only other, both able and trustworthy characters. All more or less likely to side with Jon. At least because he is addressing the problem of the Others.



But Daenerys is the opposite. She has very few good counselors, she banished her best one, and her possible allies are plotting against her, are unsavory, or would be unpopular in Westeros. And finally I believe her last enemies are Illirio and Varys, who will support Aegon. There is still Tyrion, but their association is anything but certain.


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I agree, Jon will ultimately save the world, but I think he'll become a slightly more grey character in the process.



I don't think he'll do it all by himself, but I can imagine him being the one leading others. I think he, not Dany, is AA/PtwP, and that the series' title refers to him as well, so that makes him pretty important.


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Jon is one of the few who cares for the welfare of all before himself and his honor. And who are the others like him? Aemon, Mance, Davos (will side with him at some point), Sam. Jon and his team are the best characters. They must be the heroes.

I would say the new Jaime (and Brienne), the remaining Starks, and a few Northmen are the only other, both able and trustworthy characters. All more or less likely to side with Jon. At least because he is addressing the problem of the Others.

But Daenerys is the opposite. She has very few good counselors, she banished her best one, and her possible allies are plotting against her, are unsavory, or would be unpopular in Westeros. And finally I believe her last enemies are Illirio and Varys, who will support Aegon. There is still Tyrion, but their association is anything but certain.

Daenerys also puts the welfare of all before herself. I'm really starting to miss the days where even the biggest Dany detractors could admit her intentions are good, even if they disagree with the way she carries them out.

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:agree: Dany absolutely has an overdeveloped sense of responsibility. I could definitely see her doing something self-sacrificial in the WftD (and pissing off her detractors for all eternity).

I think that is a very likely possibility. I'd rather she live, but if she has to die, something like that would fit her arc nicely.

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Why having a dedicated singular hero and various PoVs are necessarily mutually exclusive ?

They don't necessarily have to be, but in this case I think it's true.

I don't know that Jon will be anymore important than Bran, or Dany for example. Or vice versa. I'm actually leaning towards the idea of multiple people (mainly those 3) will fulfill most of prophecies.

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The song of Ice and Fire is the song of Dany and Jon. Dany is going to be just as important as Jon when it comes to the salvation of Westeros. I agree that Tyrion also has a role to play, and that I'm still convinced that this story will end tragically for most of the characters still alive (With the exception of Sansa and Baby Rickon), but trust that a combination of Dany and Jon will save the realm.

Ice and Fire don't mix ;)

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Personally i have to admit that i don't feel about Martin's books as i used to before i started to interact with the fandom. My impression is that most people on this forum don't know what they actually want to happen in the story , and if they do , they don't know how they want it , because it seems every possible option get stuck against a formulaic barrier , something that has been done before. In the past i thought that maybe it was Martin's fault for filling his fans heads with the concept "realistic" fantasy. Probably it's the fans fault for having unrealistic expectations of his talent to make something unique in a genre that in the end demands clichés in order to be satisfying , even if people don't like to contemplate this inevitability when talking about this series.

There will be a lot of disappointed fans with the ending i believe , and this fandom will have no one to blame but themselves. As Michael Crichton once wrote : "entertainment has nothing to do with reality. Entertainment is antithetical to reality"

People should really lower their expecatations of how original this books can be ultimately

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Is Jon Snow the hero of asoiaf? Well, if he is, then Westeros is pretty much screwed. As a leader, Jon doesn't listen to anyone's advice and lacks communication skills, leading to his stabbing. Quite a few of his decisions (including Alys Karstark and the Mance mission) are driven by his "hero's instinct" and emotions. Yes, these are the morally "right" decisions, but much like Ned informing Cersei to save Myrcella and Tommen, they are highly impractical. Jon also shows great hypocrisy with the Mance mission, knowing that he is breaking the vows and that he would not let any NW man do the same. Nevertheless, after realizing his hypocrisy, Jon goes ahead and does it anyway because he is LC and he can. In short, I see no reason why you'd want Jon Snow to be the hero. And if he is the ultimate hero, he'll probably end up dead (again).

Eddard Stark and Robb Stark happen to be the previous two "true heroes" and "MAIN CHARACTERS". Funny that no one considers them important anymore. Where are they again? Oh... their heads got chopped off. Such a shame. Now, under an objective view (which it may be hard for many posters to take), Jon Snow is about 90% (or more) the same as Ned and Robb. All of them pretty much have the typical icy Starks personality and beliefs. In fact, if we look at Jon Snow's character development from AGOT to ADWD, we see... practically nothing. Yes, there was Jon's epic slide down the slippery slope from "paper shield" to WAR, but that's hardly positive. Oh, Jon got less arrogant. *clap. Oh, he made one "tough" decision with swapping Gilly's child (that doesn't even fall on the same difficulty scale as what Arya/Bran/Dany/Jaime/Sansa/Tyrion/any other important character including Stannis and Theon faced). *clap. *clap. Jon was also handed a bucketload of plot gifts and "coincidences" with no strings attached that (in volume) exceeds that of any other character. And the end result... is that he failed. If you happen to think that Jon Snow is a tragically inept hero who !@#$s everything up, I could see that. But the hero who the whole story and the upcoming War of the Dawn centers upon and to whom all other characters are expendable? Definitely not.

Uh ok....

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What noble character doesn't have a sense of entitlement? Shit, Jon is nothing more then a bastard yet even he shows off a sense of entitlement.

One could stretch an argument (which what one has to do against Dany) and say the same about Jon.

I think the reference that the 7 kingdoms belong to her and her egotistical approach to many characters. Yes many of the nobles do this. You're correct in pointing that out. But Dany is marching around Essos convinced that she should rule the world because she is "the blood of the dragon", and that all in Westeros should bow before her. That, I think, is more or less what the poster meant. That as well as refusing to listen to how Ned Stark could be innocent among other things.

I think the difference say between Cersei (and I do dislike her as well) and Dany, is that Dany is marching around acting as if the world owes her everything, while Cersei and the schemers of KL openly admit that they are playing a dangerous game for power. There is a slight difference there.

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I think the reference that the 7 kingdoms belong to her and her egotistical approach to many characters. Yes many of the nobles do this. You're correct in pointing that out. But Dany is marching around Essos convinced that she should rule the world because she is "the blood of the dragon", and that all in Westeros should bow before her. That, I think, is more or less what the poster meant. That as well as refusing to listen to how Ned Stark could be innocent among other things.

I think the difference say between Cersei (and I do dislike her as well) and Dany, is that Dany is marching around acting as if the world owes her everything, while Cersei and the schemers of KL openly admit that they are playing a dangerous game for power. There is a slight difference there.

And that different then Stannis marching around whining about how Westeros should bow to him as he is the true king and even killing his own brother over that issue? You know despite him having jack shit for evidence to his claim.

Why should she like Ned and who cares? Again how is that different then Stannis's whining about Robb being an usurper (or his whining about Ned taking "his" handship) something he repeatedly does to family members' faces unlike Dany speaking miles away from the Starks and actually have legitimate reasons to have grievances against them.

Moreover, Dany seems to realize that she will have to conquer Westeros just the same as those schemers you justify.

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